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Bit Rate??

Discussion in 'Recording' started by jhagertybhs, Nov 8, 2003.

  1. jhagertybhs

    jhagertybhs Guest

    I am in the middle of mixing a project in which the vocals were recorded at another studio. When they were recorded, I really don't know what bit (16 or 24 or something else) they were recorded at. I do know the engineer dumped the session on cd's (16 bit). Is there something I could do (besides eq, fx, etc. etc.) to make up for those lost bits?
  2. Screws

    Screws Active Member

    Bit depth (not rate, that's the term for sampling frequency) has to do with the dynamic range, i.e. lowest volume to highest volume.

    If the original tracks were recorded at 24 bits and then transfered to audio cd's (16 bit) then 8 bits were truncated, or lost. The good news is, if the vocal was compressed and sounds good, you're not missing anything since what was truncated was the lowest level stuff, like super quiet notes and reverb tails.
  3. jhagertybhs

    jhagertybhs Guest

    Bit depth, oh yeh, got my depths and sample rates mixed up!!!
  4. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    Nope. Once those bits are gone, they are lost forever. Your stuck to work with whatever was given to you. But those lost bits have more to do with level than they are likely to be the reason why something wasn't recorded well.

    What is it that you think that you are missing or that you think you would get back if you had those lost bits of data? Those lost bits wouldn't make the vocal tone better, make up for lack of talent, fix a bad mic choice or mic placement or any other reason that could be the cause of a bad recording.

    I still often use 16-bits for recording (but usually with good 24-bit covnverters) and I've never had anyone say they could hear or notice that I wasn't using all 24-bits. Having and using 24-bits is far less important than it is to have all the other necessary things needed for a great recording.
  5. jhagertybhs

    jhagertybhs Guest

    I'm not sure what I think I might be losing. AFter I finish a mix, and play it back in another player, it sounds like the vocals are kind of back, out of the mix, almost cave-like, not quite that bac but they are not right up front smacking you in the face. I've tried various eq's and all sorts of things. What do ya think?
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    When you finish a mix and play it back on the same recorder you recorded it on, does it sound the same? When you say, "play it back on another player", do you mean in another room or another player in the same room?

    If it sounds different in another room then the problem is with your mix rooms acoustics, not with the bit depth or sample rates. It is an acoustics problem not technical..
  7. realdynamix

    realdynamix Well-Known Member

    :) Vocals are center channel, mostly, could there be something out phase in the play system you tested on, or is there a phase problem in the mix system? Does the bass fall off too?

  8. jhagertybhs

    jhagertybhs Guest

    I have been listening in the same room and others (i.e. car, home stereo) Here is what I am doing. I am mixing a vocal trio using leased pro soundtrax. Since the trax really need no work, I have been mixing the vocals down to a left and right. Then performing some minor mastering to the vocals alone and then placing them back with the trax. When re-mixing the vocals w/ the trax the 2nd time, should they be panned left and right, or both kept centered? Also, will adding reverb to the overall vocal mix be cleaner than to the individual trax? Thanks for the help. I'm pulling my hair out here.
  9. realdynamix

    realdynamix Well-Known Member

  10. jhagertybhs

    jhagertybhs Guest

    [/QUOTE] Are you combining the TRAX along with the vocals on your second set of tracks?

    Yes, I am jut taking 3 vocals (all panned center) and mixing them down to a left and right. I then export them as .wav files and run them through the waves L2. I then line this new rendered left and right track with the music.

    quote:When you say both, is this a submix of the trio (stereo), or is it a doubling of the original vocal tracks, the TRAX, and other processing?

    I guess this is a submix. The originals are gone, changed, replaced with the rendered version.
  11. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    Break down the problem until you find it. Skip the L2, is the problem still there? Are the vocals ok by themselves with or without the L2? It is not normal to mix the vocals outside of the music bed and therefore you may never really get the balance just right. Try fliping polarity/phase on one or more vocal tracks and see if that buys you anything. If it is the way your attempting to use panning that is the root of the problem, don't do it that way.
  12. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    If you think there is no real big difference between 44k/24,44k/16 or 44k/20 try to make a long fade out...
    I always urge my clients to let the fades for myself doing mastering. Lots of people doing wrong fades, with low monitoring, cutting important data and so...

    Yes, proper mic placement, a nice a/d, eq and comp are much more important.

    Remember the first CDs when the fades used to be Sh...? Well, at least they were not hardly compressed as almost every new bright pancake we´ve seen on stores...

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