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Brauner Valvet vs. Neuman M147

Discussion in 'Pro Audio Equipment' started by UTS, Dec 11, 2001.

  1. UTS

    UTS Guest

    Hi,

    I narrowed down my quest for a good vocal mic to these two - they fit my budget well and both are supposed to sound very good and got good reviews and have an acclaimed brandname....
    Which one would you go for? The mic will go in either the Preamps of a Trident 65 or a Joe Meek VC1Q. I am looking for a full and close sound, with a fine and detailed top-end.

    Also the mic should have good allrounder talents. I'll most likely track some acoustic instruments with it as well.

    Thanks for your comments.

    UTS
     
  2. Jon Best

    Jon Best Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2001
    These are two VERY different mics- the Valvet has a lot of airy top end, although it's not harsh at all, like most inexpensive, top end heavy mics seem to be. It's very nice across the whole frequency range, but the top really pushes forward a lot. The M147 is really different- forward mids, with decent bottom and a rolled off top end.

    I don't think either one of them would be my first $2K mic choice- they both have such distinct personalities. They'll both be wonderful on some things, and suck on others.

    What you want, IMO, is a mic that sounds pretty good wherever you put it. In that price range, I'd probably vote for the Lawson or Soundeluxe.

    Or, you could get a TLM103, a Beyer M160, and a BLUE Dragonfly. That'd cover a _lot_ of bases for $2K.

    Originally posted by UTS:
    Hi,

    I narrowed down my quest for a good vocal mic to these two - they fit my budget well and both are supposed to sound very good and got good reviews and have an acclaimed brandname....
    Which one would you go for? The mic will go in either the Preamps of a Trident 65 or a Joe Meek VC1Q. I am looking for a full and close sound, with a fine and detailed top-end.

    Also the mic should have good allrounder talents. I'll most likely track some acoustic instruments with it as well.

    Thanks for your comments.

    UTS
     
  3. Jon Best

    Jon Best Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2001
    Of course, Brad Lunde told me recently that Brauner is coming out with the Valvet Voice, which I think is supposed to be more balanced, without such a high end emphasis- that should be a good all-around mic contender.
     
  4. RandomGuest

    RandomGuest Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    If you've got the $2K, you won't regret the Lawson L47MP. There is a whole thread currently running on this mic you should check out if you want some testimonials. If I had to pick one mic to "do it all" this would definitely be it.
     
  5. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2001
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
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    The Brauner Valvet voice sounded very nice, and yes it was a little less bright than the regular valvet. I think I tend to like less bright mics, they sound more natural to me and I find myself using them more than not. I also like the MBHO 608 (large diaphram - tri polar pattern) very much. I find it very natural and very top shelf sounding...it's a lot of mic for it's price. The history of MBHO is a good read also.
     
  6. Mike Simmons

    Mike Simmons Active Member

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    Nov 5, 2001
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    Philadelphia
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    I love my Valvet, been using it a couple years now on voice, cello and acoustic gtr with excellent results. Why not bring 'em both in and see which you like better? I preferred mine over the U95 and the Manley Standard Reference but that's just an opinion.
     
  7. MadMoose

    MadMoose Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    The problem with something like MBHO, Geffel and even Brauner among other mics is that they don't have any kind of name among to them among the general public. If someone comes into my studio I can point at Neumann, AKG, and Blue is starting to get there as well. The only people who know about Brauner are other engineers which is cool, but it's not going to draw clients in even if it is a better mic. Keep in mind I'm speaking from the perspective of a studio owner.
     
  8. RandomGuest

    RandomGuest Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    Originally posted by Jay Kahrs:
    The problem with something like MBHO, Geffel and even Brauner among other mics is that they don't have any kind of name among to them among the general public. If someone comes into my studio I can point at Neumann, AKG, and Blue is starting to get there as well. The only people who know about Brauner are other engineers which is cool, but it's not going to draw clients in even if it is a better mic. Keep in mind I'm speaking from the perspective of a studio owner.

    Maybe one of the few times I've ever disagreed with Jay, but i don't seem to run into that problem at all. If a client comes and sees a new "unknown" mic on the stand, and I rave about it, usually they can't wait to at least audition it. Especially if it is either cool looking or really old looking. That's not to say they'll always go with it, but they're usually eager to give it a test drive.

    Most artists are looking for every edge to set their music apart from the crowd - whether that comes in the form of a different mic, preamp, or compressor. Of course, it helps if you have a few "brand names" standing by to compare or fall back on.
     
  9. drumsound

    drumsound Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2001
    Location:
    Bloomington, IL
    I'm with littledog on this one. I guess my clients are not very savvy, so if I say it's cool, they believe me and give it a listen.
     
  10. MadMoose

    MadMoose Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Most of my clients trust me but you can't deny that the lemming factor exists. How many times have people asked you if you have a Neumann? I get it a few times a month.
     
  11. Uncle E

    Uncle E Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2001
    Don't forget that neither the Trident nor the Meek pre's are very toppy, the Meek actually sounding best when mated w/ bright & even harsh mics (to counter it's somewhat dull character).
     
  12. UTS

    UTS Guest

    Hi,

    thanks for the load of comments guys!
    I am not too impressed with MBHO Mics I must say. I have a matched pair of MBC 660 and whilst they sound good on classical guitar or Viola, I wouldn't want to use them on something that needs a little bit more top or bottom. They are very mid-rangy - sound awful on OH for example.
    Jay, yeah, you are right with the name-dropping phenomena. There are lots of people asking for Neumanns. On the other hand, Brauner has become a REALLY big name in Germany as well, and is almost as recognized by now.
    Eric is certainly right, that both pre's I'll be using are more full, yeh maybe dull in certain ways, so a more airy mic would match them better.
    Could someone point me towards pages where I can get some info (also prices) about Lawson and Soundeluxe?
    What about TLM 103? It's kinda cheap here in Germany ( ca. 700$). Is it in the same league as the Brauner or the M 147???

    Ok, thanks again and looking forward to reading more from you.

    Best,

    UTS
     
  13. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2001
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Home Page:
    Originally posted by UTS:
    Hi,
    I am not too impressed with MBHO Mics I must say. I have a matched pair of MBC 660 and whilst they sound good on classical guitar or Viola, I wouldn't want to use them on something that needs a little bit more top or bottom. They are very mid-rangy


    MBHO doesn't even make a 660 model (at least not anymore). I would have to confirm that this is a discontinued model of theirs. This midrangey character doesn't hold true of the rest of their line. Their small diaphram and large diaphrams are anything but midrangey, they are very natural and musical with a full frequency response and low self noise. I use a pair of the MBHO small diaphram with the KA800 figure 8 capsule because they are actually more subdued in the highs as opposed to a typical cardiod or omni w/ 8-9k peak. So I am actually choosing to put less brightness and more neutrality in my recordings by doing this, but brighter options exist from MBHO through the other patterns.
     
  14. SlideMan

    SlideMan Guest

    If this is to be your vocal microphone, forget about the M147. I have owned one for three years and have given up on finding any singer that sounds good on it. And yes, even the TLM103 is better for vocals, although I prefer other microphones over the 103. FWIW, I have never read any favorable comments on the net about the M147 for vocals.

    Happy hunting.
     
  15. UTS

    UTS Guest

    Nathan,

    the MBC 660 was exclsuively made for Musikhaus Thomann (Germany's equivalent to Sweetwater I guess). They sold a matched pair for something like 350$. Maybe I have been a little too hasty with judging MBHO because of this mic, having in mind that it weas probably the cheapest they ever made. Still it sounds not too good.

    Best.

    UTS
     
  16. Rog

    Rog Guest

    MBHO mics are amazing, especially for the money!
     
  17. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2001
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Home Page:
    Originally posted by UTS:
    Maybe I have been a little too hasty with judging MBHO because of this mic, having in mind that it weas probably the cheapest they ever made.


    There is a significant quality difference between their current lower line mics and their higher priced lines ($600-$1300)...although the lower lines sound very good for their price range (mid $300's). I suppose this should be expected though, especially when considering older technology such as the 660's you mentioned. BTW, the M147 is gear more towards instrumental micing, taking the same general sonic space as a U47 FET for example. If you are looking for that sound, I would go with a Soundelux U195...if you want a U87ish type sound I really prefer the Rode NTK to the TLM103. It's more musical to my ears with a softer/silkier top and less proximity.
     
  18. UTS

    UTS Guest

    Nathan,

    you just mentioned the Rode NTK. I read alot of hype comments about it and really like the Rode sound in general (I even like the NT1 alot!). Does the NTK really compare to mics double the price (Neumanns, Brauner, Soundelux you name it)?
    I mean, I am currently using an AT 4033 and the next mic I want to buy should be a definite step up....let me know what you think.

    Yours,

    UTS
     
  19. regisfunk

    regisfunk Guest

    Originally posted by Jon Best:


    What you want, IMO, is a mic that sounds pretty good wherever you put it. In that price range, I'd probably vote for the Lawson or Soundeluxe.



    To each his own, I guess :). I originally went with a Lawson for my main vox mic, after having (regrettably) sold my Blue U-47 cuz I was nervous having a mic that expensive with kids around. I could live with breaking a $2k mic, not a $5k mic. The "L-47" made me believe I could get a "U-47" sound for half the price of my BLUE. I sent the Lawson back. It sounded 'distant' for lack of a better term. I tried all of the pattern settings, etc. Just couldn't get a nice loud presence out of it. And after trying out several other mics, like an AKG 4060 and an M-147, I tried a valvet, and it was the closest thing I could get to what I had going with the BLUE. Still a bit different, of course, but it was the only other mic that had that same naturally compressed, silky smooth (albeit slightly more hyped) top end.

    Chris Stevens
    http://www.fabmusic.com
     
  20. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Home Page:
    Originally posted by UTS:
    Nathan,

    you just mentioned the Rode NTK. I read alot of hype comments about it and really like the Rode sound in general (I even like the NT1 alot!). Does the NTK really compare to mics double the price (Neumanns, Brauner, Soundelux you name it)?
    I mean, I am currently using an AT 4033 and the next mic I want to buy should be a definite step up.


    There is a big difference between the NT1 and the NTK, it's like a different company made the product. The NTK will go head to head with the TLM 103, which is a Neumann, but not a high priced Neumann. I prefer it to the places where I normally used TLM103's because I find the top and lows more usable & musical in general. If you are looking for the quality of a Brauner or higher end Soundelux you won't find it with the NTK. Is it worth it to you to spend the extra $1500+ on a better mic though, that's for you to decide.

    I personally feel the best condenser in the $1K-$2K range is the MBHO 608 (I sell two other popular lines that have mics in that price range also). The Soundelux and Brauner's are excellent, as are the upper line BLUE's such as the Cactus (stock B7 capsule) and Bottle (with B7 or B5 capsule instead of the B6...that's just my preference).
     

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