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Building a Recording Studio - How many layers of drywall will lightweight steel studs hold?

Discussion in 'Room Acoustics / Isolation / Treatment' started by Noah Shain, Dec 28, 2014.

  1. Noah Shain

    Noah Shain Active Member

    Hi all
    I can't find specs for lightweight steel stud load limitations. I've done a bit of searching here and on the web.
    Anyone know a rule of thumb?
    Can I put 3 layers up safely?
    Thanks!!!
     
  2. pan60

    pan60 Active Member

    Not sure but you can add rubber matting between the rock layers to add mass.
    Do rock, rubber, rock, rubber. Or look at some of the mass load vinyls out there.
     
  3. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    You can add rubber to add mass according to who?

    Is the rubber the same mass as the as yet unspecified layers the op is talking about? If it isn't then you would not use rubber....and you must consider the cost in any event.

    Mass loaded vinyl has no place in attempting to contain sound.

    As for a rule for installing sheathing on light weight metal studs, the shear ability of the fastener has to be considered but first and foremost you have to explain how the studs are supported vertically in order to give an answer.
     
  4. Noah Shain

    Noah Shain Active Member

    Thank you. I am NOT planning on using any rubber in my walls. There is 1 layer of existing drywall up. I'm considering pulling it down for 2 main reasons.
    1) So I can put a layer of OSB 1st which I've done before. It made hanging acoustic treatment so easy later because I did t have to hunt for studs.
    2) so I can do it all right and air tight. The layer that is up is typical office style construction and is very obviously not airtight.
    I'm not sure yet how the structure is vertically supported. As soon as I get in there I will investigate and report back here, hoping for good direction.

    Thanks for the solid reply!
     
  5. Noah Shain

    Noah Shain Active Member

    I thought I might as well ask if there IS a rule of thumb? Using standard fasteners and method?
     
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    there is a correct way to do what you are trying to do .... it's called "sound board insulation".

    thermofloor_main.jpg

    start with osb and then make a sandwich of 5/8" sheet rock soundboard and then 1/2' rock. seal with caulk.

    the 3 different layers will have different resonant frequencies thereby cutting transmission though the wall. a layer of Limp Mass Vinyl can be applied if needed.
     
  7. pan60

    pan60 Active Member

    Mass Vinyl or rubber is not sound proofing but neither is adding sheet rock.
    Limp Mass Vinyl just means the mass is Limp Mass loaded and not Mass loaded.
    Do some homework, rubber, Vinyl's and yes even lead have been used to load a membrane and or wall.
    It will take more then just some sheet rock to contain the sound, and stop or moderately tame transmission.
    As the question imparted loading, he got my two cents.
     
  8. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    "It will take more then just some sheet rock to contain the sound, and stop or moderately tame transmission."

    I remember the op's budget...it was ...no budget. So you can spend that any way you want. But when it come to spending real cash, what you suggest is inaccurate.

    A Limp mass is the goal...which is why SAND is always an interesting item. Problem is...try to contain sand!!!

    Limp Mass Vinyl (LMV) is per square footage too costly per isolation reduction...no one suggests it unless we are trying to isolate a construction site, which is what it is or rather what it was developed for.

    Maybe you should read a few books as a New Years resolution:)
     
  9. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    Jesus Kurt. You know as well as anyone this is Internet myth.
     
  10. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    i guess it's one that i have perpetuated ... i built two studios using soundboard ... one was a building that was unusable when it rained due to the sound of the rain hitting the roof ... we put up soundboard and the problem went away.

    i also used the stuff in my studio (KFRS) on the walls, to plug windows and as a way to tame hi reflections all with great success.

    http://www.acoustiblok.com/

    http://www.fiberboard.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=55&Itemid=61

    http://www.buildgp.com/hushboard-sound-deadening-board

    http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing-solutions/soundproofing-walls/
     
  11. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    so 5/8" fire rated sheetrock would not have corrected the issue? It is, as you are illustrating, a damping issue, and the mass would have complimented that.
     
  12. pan60

    pan60 Active Member

    I would agree that serves as a great limp mass loading product.
    But mass loaded vinyl I don't believe qualifies as limp mass loaded vinyl was it is attach and anchored, only suspended as I understand limp mass to be. I'm not sure it would continue to qualify as limp. On a floor yes depending not on wall. Unless maybe if it was a decoupled floating wall?
    Maybe you should read up on recycled rubber as a New Years resolution. :)
    The reason I mentioned rubber is it is recognized and a very nice absorptive product and it adds a great deal of mass loading. So bang for the buck IMHO, it would far outweigh three layers of rock as to adding mass and damping sound.
    But in the given environment nothing is truly going solve the issue here because if we want to contain something we cannot have any holes now do we?
    I'm not here to argue I offered a solid suggestion ( not the only way to skin a cat but again there are other issues here ), take it or leave I don't care.
     
  13. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    "But mass loaded vinyl I don't believe qualifies as limp mass loaded vinyl was it is attach and anchored, only suspended as I understand limp mass to be. I'm not sure it would continue to qualify as limp. On a floor yes depending not on wall. Unless maybe if it was a decoupled floating wall?"

    Could you speak clearly?

    "Or look at some of the mass load vinyls out there."

    You did say this?
     
  14. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    i have never used limp mass vinyl ... i was suggesting it in the context of if needed or in other words "if you like you can" .... sorry if i didn't communicate that correctly.

    yes Brian, i'm sure it would have .... soundboard was less than 1/2 the cost and 1/2 the weight ..... lifting sheets of 5/8" fireboard 14 feet was not something i wanted to get into ....

    i do not dispute your abilities or knowledge ... in fact most often i deffer to your remarks but it does occur to me sometimes that what some propose (while totaly correct) is often overkill for the intended purpose. often what i suggest is a guerrilla approach that may just do the job. if it doesn't no harm done ... one can always go even further if they wish.
     
  15. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    I love ya Kurt....
     
  16. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    right back at ya' Brian .... i really do think you "rock". RO's lucky to have you as a contributor.
     
    kmetal and Space like this.
  17. pan60

    pan60 Active Member

    Sorry, I am a bit under the weather, let me try again.
    I am familiar with mass load vinyls.
    Mass loaded vinyl is a product limp mass loading is a way of construction.
    If the mass loaded vinyl is sandwiched between two sheets of rock, it would not ( as I understand ), qualify as limp mass loading ( short of the wall serving as one large diaphragm ).


    So, mass loaded vinyl, I don't believe qualifies as limp mass loaded vinyl when it is attach and anchored, but only if it is suspended. This is as I understand limp mass loading to be. Rolled out as a floor underlayment yes, depending.

    Does that make sense?
     
  18. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    I think we are discussing Phillip Newell and his approach to isolation is this correct? He is a leader in the field.
     
  19. pan60

    pan60 Active Member

    Although I am familiar with some of his work, I am honestly not really up on his design methods. I would have to do some research on his design methods to answer you on that.
     
  20. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    ". This is as I understand limp mass loading to be. Rolled out as a floor underlayment yes, depending.

    Does that make sense?"

    No. MLV has no place in an physics driven or acoustic driven sound proofed type of environment. It is specifically, MLV, a construction type of sound dampen material.

    It was developed, mlv, as a means to cut sound from bothering the outside world, outside of that it is not a >goto< product in the the arena of small room acoustical environments.
     

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