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channel driven amps vs. pedals / op-amps

Discussion in 'Recording' started by andshesbuyingastairway, May 6, 2007.

  1. the channel driven amps like the 5150, bogner, hughes and kettner, etc., do these use monolithic op-amps for their distortion channels?

    do most (not multi-fx) guitar pedals (say for example boss, MXR, etc.) use discrete op-amps?

    also do the orange and hiwatt multi-channel amps use monolithic or discrete op-amps for the distortion channels?
  2. sheet

    sheet Well-Known Member

    Why not call the manufacturers and ask your questions.
  3. i don't get the point to your statement.

    edit: nevermind, please don't waste space explaining it to me as i have a feeling you will try (especially being a moderator and all). it was pointless there is no good answer or explination

    i will call the manufacturer, thanks for you awesome help and advice. you're making recording.org a great place to seek answers for questions concerning audio give yourself a pat on the back man

    just out of curiosity, is that another way of saying you have absolutely no idea?
    (feel free to answer that one, it'll probably give you more of a thrill to go the runaround and explain to me why you even bothered to make that stupid ass comment in the first place rather than to just simply ignore the topic if you had no idea what the answer is to my question)

    why not just go to prosoundweb.com and ask my questions, you're a joke buddy
    one things for sure don't worry because i won't be asking YOU anything ever again, not that i ever did in the first place

    **anyone else who has a genuine interest in this topic, please don't let sheet sway you from response, this isn't a personal game it's the pursuit of audio engineering 'enlightenment,' some people forget that sometimes
  4. dementedchord

    dementedchord Well-Known Member

    hey stairway.... why not take a moment and answer a few questions for the newbies.... if imight suggest on a philosphical and ethical basis the way we pay for our own enlightenment is through enlightening others....
  5. sheet

    sheet Well-Known Member

    No you smart butt. It only seems logical to call the people that design, manufacture and sell the amps in question. When I have a question about my studio gear, I don't look on a message board to see if someone can walk me through something. I go to the source, the manufacturer, to see why things are the way that they are, THEN I go to the boards to see what others are doing to work around issues/limitations.
  6. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    The question is moot. Neither Orange or Hiwatt guitar amps (except for the little BS practice amps they market from China) use "monolithic' circuit designs. They use a device called a "tube", and they probably 'stack' them in some sort of dual-triode arrangement to heap lots of gain on the input...
  7. MrEase

    MrEase Active Member

    As a designer I must say that for the distortion channel I would'nt really care as I would be looking for distortion whatever. Certainly an op-amp makes it simpler and cheaper to create more complex overdrive circuitry rather than the rather ubiquitous soft limiting approach. What is used by any manufacturer is likely to be determined by its model's vintage rather than any particular design philosophy.

    I think your knowledge is a bit lacking here as these are not the only options. I have only seen "discrete op-amps" used in things such as SSL pre-amp sections etc. I would not consider their limitations and expense in a guitar FX pedal. Many of the pedals use discrete circuitry (but NOT discrete op-amps) - examples Cry baby, MXR compressor, MXR gate, several BOSS pedals. Some FX pedals do use op-amps though - depends very much on the vintage and effect in question.

    What beats me though is why do you care? Choose the pedal/amp that floats your boat!

    To be certain for any particular amp/pedal you will need to do exactly what sheet suggested so why get uppity? It's the only way you will get a complete answer to your rather nebulous question.
  8. moonbaby; i'm not implying they use monolithic circuit designs. i'm aware they use tubes. i'm implying they used hybrid IC designs with discrete (tubes) and possibly monolithic op-amps. although it make more since to me that the hiwatt and orange in particular would use discrete op-amps or some other form of discrete circuitry for their gain channels. i understand what you are saying but i am highly doubtful that their overdrive channels are created by stacking two tubes in the preamp. it's possible though, i'm not familiar with the circuitry which is why i ask in the first place.

    say we are talking about the peavey 5150, well that uses two tubes in the preamp as well, but i'm willing to bet it's distortion channel is higher gain than marshall with 3 tubes or say laney with 4. or what about the newer marshalls that use one tube in the preamp. the point is all the newer channel divided models use less tubes for the most part than the older single ch. models. so hence my questioning, where in the world is all that gain coming from?

    my knowledge is limited? okay then mr. knowledgable, what discrete circuitry are you referring to that is used in these pedals?

    p.s. technically monolithic designs DO employ tubes.
  9. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    You sure do like saying the word, "monolithic", don't you? :lol:
    Yes, I'm sure that some of these manufacturers (especially the ones that don't state that their circuits are 'point-to-point') use some sort of IC in lieu of an extra preamp tube to get 'high gain' performance. Both tube and amp manufacurers have always griped that a preamp tube was almost as expensive as a power tube to make and utilize in the product. Bypassing one or more greatly reduces cost. It just doesn't sound the same, IMHO.
    BTW, you should contact a company called, "Analog Devices". They also use the tradenames, "Precision Monolithic", and "SSM" (Solid State Music"). They offer excellent documentation on deigns using their IC's, ranging from compressors, to preamps/mixers, mute circuits, gates, analog synths, and much more. They will gladly send you their handbook(s), I'm sure. Check them out.
  10. Seedlings

    Seedlings Active Member

    Hey andshesbuyingastairway,

    Many of the schematics you'd like to compare can be found here:


  11. dementedchord

    dementedchord Well-Known Member

    whoa..... talk about schemo heaven... thnx for the link....
  12. yeah for the sake of consistency, i do like using the word monolithic. sure a lot of badass electrical engineers don't give a ^#$% about terminology, but i'm not a badass engineer (thought you knew that by me asking these types of questions in the first place.) that's a cool site but i'm not a computer programmer, i can't read java, and i can't read this. i can't read music either, doesn't mean i can't play any piece of music i want. it just means i can't read it. so if you CAN read this and answer my simple question, then why not post it? i'm not asking really intricate questions, they are only concerning basic topology yet you are acting like you are taking offense to it.

    spread the knowledge if you've got it man, don't redirect me

    either that or can you tell me what little symbol represents the op-amps and how i would read the schematics to determine the answers to my questions please?
  13. MrEase

    MrEase Active Member

    I can only presume this is directed at me. I also presume that your questions were seeking information due to your lack of knowledge on the subject (which by definition must be from someone more knowledgeable on the subject). With this derogatory response though I have lost all interest in trying to help you.

    Good links have been provided but as it now seems that you cannot read schematics how do you expect to understand the design subtleties? Like I said before, just go with whatever floats your boat.

  14. Kent L T

    Kent L T Active Member

    Plug in my guitar... flip on the power to the mesa...hit a power chord....Sweet sound :) look at the back of amp yep its got tubes :) ok I am happy! Sometimes I get bogged down in the details and forget that it boils down to what sounds good and what doesn't whether it uses tubes, transistors or both. Curiosity is good as long as you have perspective.
  15. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Ya know, I believe that this guy IS liquidstudio, just by his tendency to argue back when he gets an answer he doesn't like to one of his moot, moronic questions. We are here to help those in the audio and music business , not the literacy-challenged. Good call, Mr. Ease, no more answering this guy. Where's Tommy Mod these days, anyway?
  16. dementedchord

    dementedchord Well-Known Member

    i thought his syntax gave him away awhile back...
  17. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    There's also this recurring theme: "someone told me" or " I was told by a friend that" or "so-and-so at such-and-such place said". I've been trying to avoid commenting but I couldn't help reading. Too entertaining.
  18. there are numerous types of valves used in plenty of different applications, neon signs, television, oscilloscopes, etc. LED, CRT etc. and the semiconductor crystal diode is used in monolithic circuitry as are other types i'm sure. i didn't say thermionic diodes, did i? it was your mistake to equate all diodes with those that you see in guitar amps.

    look, i'm not trying to start $*^t. i don't know who you guys think i am but it doesn't even matter. moonbaby i enjoyed many of your posts especially in relation to that H&H we were talking about.

    i'm not asking for subtleties... i asked for a very general circuitry depiction involved in these amplifiers. so if you don't want to help me, there's nothing i can do about that. if you CAN'T help me then i don't understand why you even bother to comment. but please spare me that explination. just know that any help would be appreciated believe it or not.
  19. dementedchord

    dementedchord Well-Known Member

    hey man not wanting to bust your chops here but why dont you stop sounding like a syllabus froma class you didnt take and simply converse... offer up some of this insight you would like us to believe you have... why is it none of your posts are operational in nature???? you're never trying to improve anything... oh wait a minute... are you that troll that started that little te et' te (sp?) over at sound on sound???? wanting someone else to write a book for you????
  20. TVPostSound

    TVPostSound Guest

    I told REMY I thought he was aqauaboy666 3 weeks ago!!! :cool:

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