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Cheap Way to do Drums in Protools

Discussion in 'Pro Tools' started by logamos2001, Feb 25, 2005.

  1. logamos2001

    logamos2001 Guest

    allright. so im looking into getting a protools setup. i wanna be able to do a full drum kit through it. so in looking at the digi002 rack mount, u get 4 mic pres. thats nothing. i need at least 8 for a kit. so im not exactly sure how one goes about doing this. i remember my buddy that went off to skool somehow had the 002 and a rack mount that was just like 8 mic pres (xlr) how do u do what he did and add more inputs?? thanks a whole lot!
  2. stickers

    stickers Active Member

    Jan 31, 2005
    Lowell MA
    Home Page:
    you could get a 4 channel mic pre and connect that to the 5-8 line inputs on the 002 or you get an 8 channel pre (Focusrite Octo Pre, Presonus Digimax..) that has a light pipe out and connect it to the light pipe in on the 002. If you did both you would have a total of 16 pres. 4+4+8=16
  3. Dave62

    Dave62 Guest

    You can also use an alesis AI-3 optical patchpaby that will increase the inputs and outputs of the 002 R to 16. When I started, I used an earlier mackie 1604 and fed the 4 digi line inputs and the 8 Ai-3 line inputs from the mackie direct outs.
  4. wiseal1

    wiseal1 Guest

    by a mic pre

    I purchase a Presonus Digi Max LX its gives me 8 mic pres and through adat light pipe. Sounds great on drums too. Cost is around $800.00 American. This would more than solve your problem.

    I can actually record 16 tracks at once this way.
  5. logamos2001

    logamos2001 Guest

    im digging that light pipe idea. but im not sure what it is! im looking on the digidesign wesbite and im trying to figure out what that is. can someone help me out?
  6. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    8 channel digital audio via an optical cable from Alesis.

    B8000 is a cheapy with mic-pres
    I own and use both Ai3 and B8000
    I think I prefer the Ai3 at this stage but then I'm just used to it.

    see my other many posts on the subject
    Kurt has also posted many time on this
  7. Dave62

    Dave62 Guest

    I also prefer the AI3 over the Presonus Digi Max LX or the focusrite octapre. The AI-3 is a +4/-10 balanced line input/output device with which you still need pre's of some sort i.e. mixer direct outs-outboard preamps etc. The drag with the Digimax and Octopre is that they need to be the word clock master for Protools as the 002R does not have BNC word clock out. This can lead to "Pilot Error" problems i.e you setup one day with a 44.1 session, set your Digimax LT to 44.1 and go. The next day you forget to reset the Digimax to 44.1, it defaults to 48 and if your not paying attention you can spend the day tracking a 44.1 session that is actually 48 and not realize it until you play something from the previous day. Been there done that.
  8. logamos2001

    logamos2001 Guest

    well i have been doing a little research not knowing a whole hell of a lot about the specs and what not, but the DigiMAX LT seems to be what i need. its got the xlr ins unlike the ai3. all i want is to be able to expand the 002 to more xlr ins. does anyone know if there is something that can do the same as the digimax lt but is cheaper? i found it for like 700 on musicians friend.
  9. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    A little knowledge is dangerous.

    Yes it does have xlrs ins.
    It does seem to have good level even though they are made as mic inputs.
    Clip LED comes on at +22dBu.
    This is a higher level than the Ai3


    you have missed what has been said here and in the other posts in other threads

    we have tried to look ahead for you and see the use of outputs !

    The DigiMAX LT has only Lightpipe output and not input.
    Apart from the obvious this also means it can not act in a slave mode and chase the 002.
    Please see our other posts.

    It also seems to cost much more than my Ai3 did and I'm sure a S/H unit will serve you well. Even a B8000 ... for the mic-pres.

    I think you would be better served by spending a greater part of your budget on NAME mic-pres and a cheap Lightpipe expansion box. In years to come you will still have the NAME pres long after this box is gone.

    now IF the 002 had a word-clock on BNC I could have much better things to say for the DigiMAX LT ... and no it is not the fault of PreSonus that the 002 does have word-clock

    once again we thank Digidesign for being ... annoying !
  10. BenLindell

    BenLindell Guest

    as with everything, there is a behringer product that is cheaper, and possibly not quite as good, I have not used it, but it is the ADA8000, has both light pipe in and out, and its like 230$, which is really, REALLY cheap. But as they always say you get what you pay for.

  11. logamos2001

    logamos2001 Guest

    allright. so #1 DOES anyone know about that behringer piece of equipment? and 2, so if one was to get the ai3. u would also need get like a mixer with direct outs or something else like this? can someone give me and example of how u would run the whole thing example: mic to "mixer or other device" ai3 then computer. sorry for being a pest about this stuff, im just getting a handle on the whole mic pre thing
  12. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    I have both.

    I also have enough Mic to line amps to fill all holes. A mixture of NAME brands and DIY stuff.

    These are the same amps I would use on my TDM HD system.

    Mic to line amps are connected to either the 002 on the line inputs
    OR the attached Ai3.

    The B unit ADA8000 has mic inputs BUT can make use of line level.

    Similar with Presonus and Audient and other lightpipe fitted stuff.

    A mixer can provide the Hardware monitoring that is latency free
    BUT at over dub you have the issue of real time and latent computer to deal with.

    There is a work-around for most problems
  13. wwittman

    wwittman Active Member

    Apr 28, 2003
    I'm curious why one "needs at least 8" channels for a drum kit.
  14. logamos2001

    logamos2001 Guest

    because i need to be able to conrol all aspects of the kit. ??? u cant make a kit sound amazing with just snare bass drum and to over heads. or two mics on toms. i dont care what anyone says u need at least 8 mics on a kit
  15. Dave62

    Dave62 Guest

    I have to agree with logamos. I usually use the following mics,
    1 kick
    2 snare up
    3 snare down (50% of the time)
    4 hat
    5 ride
    6 Rack tom
    7 Floor tom
    8&9 Stereo Overhead pair
    10 room mike
    11 possible 2nd kick mic
    12 third tom if needed
    William, I am curious how many tracks are devoted to drums on an album like the Fixx and Cyndi Lauper done in "Pro" studios?? Less than 8? Really??
  16. cactid

    cactid Guest

    the cyndi lauper tracks i've heard probably used far fewer than 8 mics...
  17. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Jul 2, 2002
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Au contrare', mon frier' ... The best sounding drum tracks I have ever recorded was with 3 mics. Kick, (AKG D112e), snare, (AKG C12a) and stereo overhead, (AKG C24). But the drummer was superb and he had a wonderful sounding kit. (Premier) I believe that less can be more ... if the talent is there in the first place.

    In my bands rehearsal recording set up I am currently running a D112e on the kick, sm57 on the snare and a pair of cheap Shure BETA green 4.0's over the rack toms ... all run into a Yamaha MLA7 to a sixteen bit ADAT recorder @ 44.1. I bring the tapes home and load them into Cubase, upsampling to 24 bit 44.1. The sonic results are surprisingly good, considering the front end. I just wish the performances were better.
  18. wwittman

    wwittman Active Member

    Apr 28, 2003
    Well you may think youknow what goes into a drum sound but that doesn;t make you right.

    Cyndi's first record:
    Bass Drum
    High toms
    Low toms
    Kit L
    Kit R
    distant room (triggered from close snare)

    that's 7 mics mixed to 5 tracks

    and there's no triggering of any samples.

    on Joan Osborne Relish:
    Drums L
    Drums R

    for the great majority of the record... 4 mics to 4 tracks.

    I've certainly done records with lots of mics... i just think it's silly to say that's the ONLY good drum sound.

    Stariway to Heaven
    2 mics
  19. Dan_Pence

    Dan_Pence Guest

    So basically, you're saying that John Bonham's drum sounds sucked because Eddie Kramer didn't use more than a few mics on his kit? I think that's a pretty lame assumption that a great drum sound can't be had using less than 8 mics. I agree with you wwittman. You're the man.
  20. logamos2001

    logamos2001 Guest

    i dont care if some of u guys like studios that use like 2 mics for a whole band. i want like 12 inputs! thats all. damn

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