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Cleaning and Ripping LPs (Newbie post)

Discussion in 'Recording' started by BradU, Feb 9, 2002.

  1. BradU

    BradU Guest

    I've decided that I want to clean up all my old, out-of-print LPs and burn 'em to CD. While this would seem to be a very simple project, the fact is that I know absolutely nothing about DAW. I actually did some engineering and producing in a small commercial studio in the early '80's, but digital music was still in it's infancy at that time, and I haven't had any exposure to modern computer-based recording and editing techniques. So, I'm pretty green here.

    I have no need for multitrack recording, so I assume that I can get by with a very basic card, such as the "Mia" by Echo. It comes bundled with a stripped down version of Syntrillium's "Cool Edit Pro" (the "SE" version), which I understand is a perfectly workable, basic sound editor. I have no need for MIDI implementation, either, since I'll probably not expand it in the future into a proper project studio. I also understand that there is an optional add-on that lets you suppress pops and hiss and so on, and seems to be designed specifically for this kind of project.

    I also have some pro-quality outboard gear that might help. For example, I would probably want to put my Rane DC-24 "Dynamics Controller" in the signal path to slightly expand the dynamic range of the LPs. So, am I right in assuming that this set-up would do what I'm wanting?

    Will there be any problem getting this to run on my WinXP computer (Compaq)? It's got plenty of power with a 1.5 Gig P4 chip. But I understand some of the DAW software won't run very well on XP, at least without updating the drivers. Is this correct? Also, should I assume that the CD burner that came in the machine won't be satisfactory, and will need to be upgraded? I have a feeling that it won't burn disks to the Redbook standard. Any other suggestions and recommendations to get me up and running?

    Thanks for the help,
    Brad Uebinger
  2. Hey Brad,
    I've not heard of any DAW software that is not in beta right now that is stable with WinXP. You could set up a dual boot computer using Partition Magic and use WinME or Win98SE along with your WinXP. You can download Partition Magic as a free demo from their website, or get a full version for 10.00 from http://www.cheapsoftware.com after rebate.
    If you do this, you can download ProTools Free 5.0 from http://www.digidesign.com website. This will work with most popular audio cards and most audio cards already installed in PCs. (unlike PTLE)
    For cleaning up your recordings, I love the new Restoration plugins from http://www.waves.com Complete bundle with X-Noise, X-Click, X-Crackle and X-Hum and they work unbelievably great. Removes almost all the noise from recordings without causing problems with the original. YOu can download a 14 day demo and use it right away as RTAS plugin in Protools Free. That would give you some great quality for recording those LPs.
    Good luck,
    Allen :)
  3. Brad,
    I think that Cakewalk is giving out a 30 day demo on the new Sonar that is WinXP ready. (whatever that means) You can still use the Waves Restoration demo plugins as DirectX in Sonar too and Sonar works with many existing PC audio cards.
    Allen :)
  4. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Allen, those are some good reccomendations but I think the Waves plugins are probably too expensive and wont work as well as the DeNoiser and DeClicker from Steinberg. The software is XP ready..that is not the problem. The problem lies more with device drivers and the XP coding. You will need to make sure you have all the latest updates from the Microsoft updater site before doing any audio work. It's highky reccomended you do so.
    So, A compaq computer is usually considered bad for audio systems. They put their proprietery mainboards in there and they're unstable as all can be! Trust me!! I had to try and fix a Compaq PC for Bob Clearmountain and it just crashed left and right. The poor guy thought PC's were absolute junk but I set him straight of course!! lol!
    Anyways, the best thing to get is Wavelab for dumping in and editing. The CD burner has no care for what it is burning. It's the software that matters. If you use Wavelab you can burn Red Book CD format without any problem. Plus Wavelab 4(coming out at the end of this month early next month) will have the DeNoiser and other cool Steinberg plugins allready installed into it! No need to buy any extra plugins(especially Waves)
    If you want to use your dynamics unit before going into the Mia card that's totally fine.
    Sonar has a lot of issues and is a multi-track software and is not what you are looking for.
    The two best editing softwares for Two track editing are Wavelab and Soundforge. Altho I definately prefer Wavelab since it supports newer CD burners and actually allows you to burn CD's without having to buy another program to do so. Sound Forge no longer has CD Architect so you will need to buy that seperately.
    That's the real skinny!!
  5. BradU

    BradU Guest

    Yeah, the $1200 MSRP of the Waves package kinda scared me off of that, even though I'm sure it's a real nice package. I'm not trying to build a state-of-the-art recording studio, after all. I'm just a guy who wants to be able to listen to some favorite LPs again without destroying them in the process. A 15 day trial period doesn't solve the problem, either. (I certainly do appreciate the advice, nonetheless.) I will check into the software that you mentioned, Opus.

    As I've done additional research, it appears that the WinXP issue is going to cause more problems than I initially suspected. I may have problems just finding a card that will work. The MIA is not XP compatible, as it turns out. XP is built upon the NT kernel (or, so I've been told) and a lot of stuff is definitely not compatible with it. I would really like to try to find stuff that works on my XP system and avoid doing a dual-boot, if at all possible. As stringent as the requirements are to get the XP certification, I asssume that if I can find a card and software that both say they are "XP compatible," then everything should (very theoretically) work together problem-free. We will see about that.

    Too bad there are problems with Sonar. I've been to their web site, and it is, indeed, approved for XP. Of course, even if I need to wait a few months to find hardware and software that supports XP, it won't be a big deal. Some of those LP's have already been sitting around for 25 years. They're not going anywhere soon.
  6. BradU

    BradU Guest

    Actually, maybe I won't have to wait, after all. Wavelab supports Win2000 & NT. That means that there's about a 99% chance that it'll run just fine under WinXP.

    Now, I just need to find a card that will play nicely with my Compaq XP system. Anybody have any ideas on this?

    I suppose it would also make more sense to use a plug-in comp/limiter rather than my trusty ol' Rane outboard unit.

    Thanks for all the help.
  7. BradU

    BradU Guest

    Oops! It seems I mispoke myself. Upon closer examination of the web site for the Echo line of cards, it appears that the MIA is, indeed, XP compatible. Sorry any confusion this might have caused (other than my own, of course).
  8. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Hye Brad...indeed..All software is Xp compatible..as long as it's Win2k compatibe you're all set. Win2k uses the NT kernel and so if there are drivers for Win2k it will install on XP..but as I said you will need to update Xp for audio.
    Wavelab runs great on XP! Dont it myself!!
    If you have anymore q's let us know
  9. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Listen to Opus...he's got it right...Get Steinberg's Wavelab (wait for 4.0) along with the Mia card...you'll be rockin'.

    (Opus...you worked on a Compaq PC for Bob Clearmountain? DANG! Your brother works with Brittney Spears? Dude...are you famous or what??? :) hehe... )

  10. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Hey Brad:

    I just noticed from your post that you are from Crawfordsville...I guess that makes us (almost) neighbors!

  11. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    famous, shmamous...who wants to be famous!! lol
    That would mean constant harrasment of fans..hate emails from losers who cant stand the fact that I'm better than them..hee hee! lol
    Aint nothing man...altho I have been getting quite a few more business calls lately from referrals and so forth!! Which is nice and all!!
    I just want to have fun man..no need to kill myself working double or triple overtime on this $*^t!!!
  12. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Hey Brad - If you want to stay "lowball" on this, you might check out the lastest virgin of Roxio's Easy CD Creator - I remember seeing that they had "vinyl restoration" stuff, but I don't remember if the pgm allows DirectXplug-ins- If so, and you want much more anal control than a $98 package can give, check out "ozone" from izotope.com - They were just reviewed in Jan. EQ mag - go to eqmag.com and you may be able to "view the review" I'm gonna buy a copy "pig-in-a-poke" style, it's only $199 list - It's got 8-band parametric, reverb, loudness maximizer, multiband exciter, multiband DYNAMICS, (still paying attention?) multiband stereo imaging, and a phase meter, uses 64 bit processing, and I'm gonna hang up right now and get one before they're GONE... Steve
  13. BradU

    BradU Guest

    Good ideas all the way around. Right now, I am leaning toward the MIA card / Wavelab v.4 setup, but will research the other suggestions, as well. Thanks for all the helpful advice, guys.

    Yeah, it looks like we are pretty much neighbors. I have friends over in your neck of the woods. Gettin' ready to go jam with some guys out of Indy this weekend, in fact. (Just a fun jam, no aspirations toward professional gigs. I'm too old to stay up late in the bars these days!) What about you? Do you play music around Indy? You can email me at: bradu@tctc.com

  14. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Regarding Ozone...

    Computer Music (U.K.) just did a quick review on some of the Masteringplug-ins(T-Racks 24, Izotope Ozone, WAVES, BBE, PSP and db Audio). They rated the T-Racks system the highest (10 out of 10), which I think is funny since I saw another magazine rate them as being just "OK"...

    As far as the Izotope Ozone, they were ranked a bit lower (8 out of 10, although it still got a "smart buy" rating) in this particular review (which means *almost* nothing...), but one of their comments was that it is *very* CPU intensive! They raved about the interface and the power...but said that their test system a (700 MHz PC...no other info as far as PIII or P4) "...stuggled to keep Ozone visuals updated...", and really bogged down under the strain.

    For what it's worth...


    P.S. Brad: Yeah...I'm getting too old to be playing the bar scene myself! Our last gig as "Double Helix" was at the end of March...almost one year ago. I don't miss the rigors of playing and touring full-time, but I guess I do miss being in the lime-light a bit...I've been doing it most of my life.

    I am happily spending my kid's inheritence now on my home studio, and working on a couple of different projects...including some stuff with ex-band members from Double Helix.

    the Web Site is still up for some reason, even though I stopped paying for it a few months ago, and the domain name is set to expire any day...



  15. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Hey, DH - 'preciate the headsup on "proc-rape" from ozone - I saw that, but mentioned the SW in the context both Brad and I would be using it - He wants to "restore vinyl" (2 tracks)with a 1.5 gig P4, and I only intend to use it for mastering with Samplitude 2496 and a 2 gig P4 - I may try it with more tracks, but just two tracks shouldn't kill a machine like that, especially with a gig of Rambus and no B.S. enabled whatsoever - I just can't get over the power/price ratio -

    Similar attitude - "P.S. Brad: Yeah...I'm getting too old to be playing the bar scene myself! Our last gig as "Double Helix" was at the end of March...almost one year ago. I don't miss the rigors of playing and touring full-time, but I guess I do miss being in the lime-light a bit...I've been doing it most of my life.

    I am happily spending my kid's inheritence now on my home studio"

    Made that change myself about 5 years ago - Got tired of telling the same idiot the same answer to the same question every gig, tired of providing the van, $25k worth of PA and lights, making all the cables, moving all the $*^t myself("you live too far out, we don't wanna drive that far")(15 miles, with a full size stage setup and recording capabilities) , only to have NOBODY understand that $500 for a gig SHOULD NOT mean an even 5-way split (they couldn't even understand that GAS ain't free)

    But you're right, havin' yer dogs howl appreciatively when you rip off a cool lead line just ain't quite the same... Steve
  16. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Yo Knightfly...I know we are getting *way* off topic here...but I about busted a stitch when I read your post:

    "Made that change myself about 5 years ago - Got tired of telling the same idiot the same answer to the same question every gig, tired of providing the van, $25k worth of PA and lights, making all the cables, moving all the $*^t myself("you live too far out, we don't wanna drive that far")(15 miles, with a full size stage setup and recording capabilities) , only to have NOBODY understand that $500 for a gig SHOULD NOT mean an even 5-way split (they couldn't even understand that GAS ain't free) "

    $*^t...been there...done that!!! Man, I was dying reading that...I swear that is the story of my life...usually the guy with the P.A., setting up...making cables (you crack me up!)...you hit it to a tee!!! Then I would pay for flyers, business cards, the blank CDs for the demos...etc...etc...etc...

    I even had a drummer tell me one time with a new band that he would pay his share of the studio time for our demo *after* we get some gigs and the money starts rolling in!!! Hello!!! You can't get gigs and make money without the demo...Whatever!!! Yeah let's split the money 5 ways...no problem!

    Back to topic...

    It sounds like you should have no problems with Ozone with that computer of yours...but the article on Masteringplug-inswas for 2 track work as well.

    Anyway...let us know what you find out about Ozone, and how it works for you. I remember reading an article on Mastering that had on their web site about a year ago that was pretty good, and I became interested in their product right away.

  17. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Ya James..Steve seems to havethis uncanny sense on how to make us laugh so hard! God bless you Steve for that!!
    If it's one thing I cant stand is the "too serious" approach to life!! ^#$% that!! Laugh at yourself, with yourself and at whomever you please I say!!
    Now, Live sound!! Oh boy!! I spent quite a few years doing that myself..countless professional shows in NYC..name em, I've done something for em!
    My brother has a great quote for shows..Truck comes in ...truck goes out, what could be so hard about that?!! lol
    He's always been the finger pointer and not the worker bee actually getting his hands dirty!
    Used to haveto set up the fancy shmancy V-Dosc cabs and man o man were those a blast to work with..here's an incredibly funny story that all live people will love
    Bob Dylan, Madison Sq Garden..using the V-Dosc speakers..guy in charge of flying them was one of those power hungry Napolean style fools who flew the speakers with the wheelboards still on. Now, If you know the V-Dosc speakers you know the wheelboards cover the speaker faces!! DOH!!
    Needless to say that guy was banned ever from working with Bob Dylan production crew ever again!!

    Now, on to Ozone's pluings...the sound really nice..transparent sound...but James is right! Those things will eat your system CPU useage liek a termite does in a forest!! So it's one of those programs you run in standalone!! Otherwise they're really nice but I see no need for them for me!
    I'm a happy camper with Nuendo's Mastering suite with the combination of the Waves plugins than Wavelab! And soon to be Wavelab 4.0!!!
  18. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Hey Guise - Glad the humor helps - I know it works for me. Two of my untold thousands of favorite sayings - (1) Two of the biggest mistakes we make are taking ourselves too seriously and not taking others seriously enough (stolen from somebody a while back, screw 'em)
    (2) There is nothing so serious or scary that it cannot be laughed at, modified, run away from, or if necessary killed (mine, feel free to steal it you cheesy bastards)

    Butt cereally, "El Doublo" it'll still be awhile before I know whether Ozone's "plug in, short out" approach will flagellate the new rig - was gonna order everything Mon. or Tue., til I had to move the backside of my house back behind the front, where it used to be prior to the last storm - been without "quiet power" since last Thursday. Just got it back about an hour ago - and yeah, I'm sometimes prone to exaggerate for the sake of humor, but here's a dead serious one: I was building a 24 x 36 machine shed down the hill from the barn my studio is (piled) in - had roof and siding on, thought I could set the 4x4 uprights in concrete pierblocks, lag bolted to blocks, blocks set in ground about 4" - the last storm played "airplane" with the roof, lifted the entire structure up, blocks and all, and moved it (not too evenly) about 3 feet up the hill. (Thought I was kidding about the tractors and cows, didn' ya ?)

    Hey Opus - ProRec finally posted everybody elses uploads, maybe mine will be there manana. Let you know when/if - The more I read Everest's books, the more I think I might expand on the spreadsheet idea for homegrown Helmholz's, etc. Kinda depends on time/motivation/need, sound familiar? Gotta run, you know, just me and $*^t, always downhill... Steve

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