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Discussion in 'Recording' started by cotenyc, Nov 10, 2008.

  1. cotenyc

    cotenyc Active Member

    Anyone have any recommendations for a good cloner/ doubler?

  2. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    cotenyc, cloner/doubler?? Thank you, we have had enough of George W. Bush. I think the American people have already made that clear?

    Or are you asking about how to make it sound like there are 2 of you singing?? If that is in fact your question? It's simple, any outboard digital delay line with a VCO, (voltage controlled oscillator), can make for a great doublya, or president. Conversely, most software has some kind of reference to it within your "time delay" features of your software.

    On the other side of things, it wasn't uncommon, back in the old days.....to just record more than a single pass of the solo vocal. Sometimes three or even four times over. Then you can also have some stereo fun with that as well. It's really pretty basic.

    Always providing the same doubletalk answers.
    Always providing the same doubletalk answers.
    Ms. Remy Ann David
    Ms. Remy Ann David

    Goodbye Doublya! Good riddance.
  3. pr0gr4m

    pr0gr4m Well-Known Member

    What EXACTLY do you mean by cloaner/doubler?

    Do you just mean a machine that creates a copy (or clone or double) of a particular sound so that it sounds like there are 2 of them instead of one?

    If so, check your own thread here.

    You might want to brush up on your recording terminology.
  4. cotenyc

    cotenyc Active Member

    Hey, I'm looking for a cloner or a doubler, even though I can create convincing clones with delay, I'm looking for a discreet cloner with more harmonic control. Thanks for your help.
  5. GeckoMusic

    GeckoMusic Guest

    I thought cloneing was what they do with sheep in Japan.

    Do you want something like a chores plugin? Or perhaps a harmonizer?
  6. pr0gr4m

    pr0gr4m Well-Known Member

    Stop saying cloner. Don't say cloner any more. To clone is to copy. I don't think you want something the simply copies a track...because that's REAL easy to do and I can't imagine anyone asking how to do it.

    I am under the assumption that you want a device that play back what would essentially be an echo of a track. The echo may be very short...maybe short enough not to really detect as an echo...but none the less it would be an echo. Is that correct?

    This is achieved by using a DELAY.

    Doubling is a type of delay but it implies a specific type of delay which has a relatively short delay time and zero feedback.

    Delay = the time between the original signal and the subsequent echo.
    Feedback = the number of echos.

    There are tons of delay devices ranging from simple to the very complex. A simple one would allow you to set a specific delay time usually in milliseconds. Some can also be sync'd to bpm/tempo. The more complex ones allow you to select different types of delay such as ping pong or multi-tap delays.

    Many multi-effect devices allow you to chain different effects together. So you could have a delay, followed by an EQ, followed by a compressor followed by distortion, followed by etc... Also, some delays incorporate filters to alter the sound of the delay. With a device like this you get your delay and you are also able to manipulate the signal to change the way it sounds giving you harmonic control. Some examples of these types of devices would be a Yamaha SPX2000 or Lexicon MS400. There are high end and low end devices. In the plug-in world check out Tone2's Warmverb or Luxonix' LFX-1310.

    An option to using a delay would be to take the track you want delayed and copy it to another track. Then you move the copied track in time to whatever works for you. Once you have the timing right you can apply any number of effects to that track giving you ultimate control of harmonic content.
  7. cotenyc

    cotenyc Active Member

    thanks for your advice. I checked out the 2 softwares you recommended but they aren't what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a substitute for waves doubler. Thanks guys
  8. pr0gr4m

    pr0gr4m Well-Known Member

    Why in the hell didn't you just say that in the first ^#$%ing place!?!?

    Those two programs are alternatives to Waves Doubler. What don't they have that you want? If you want help here you need to help us out a little.
  9. Greener

    Greener Guest

    Chill. :p

    Actually, I'm laughing, so keep it up.

    Four times I wanted to post this.


    Problem solved.
  10. cotenyc

    cotenyc Active Member

    Damn, you're a pretty angry dude. That is what I said, also the programs you recommended aren't what I'm looking for. Sorry that you got yourself all worked up. Take care of you.
  11. cotenyc

    cotenyc Active Member

    Actually to correct you, that isn't problem solved, that is problem started. If you actually knew something, you would know that this would only cause phasing issues (even with the phase flipped) and other great things. Yes I could've wedged over the copy a few ms but if you actually read what I wrote you would have seen I wanted harmonic control, even perhaps a bit of high passing, shuffle ability, something that would help the haas effect. You guys are both pretty condescending and ignorant so I am now done here.
  12. GeckoMusic

    GeckoMusic Guest

    Oh no, we have another JP22 in the making...
  13. Greener

    Greener Guest

    "If you actually knew something, you would know that this would only cause phasing issues (even with the phase flipped)"

    Lucky I don't know anything then, or I'd be one confused person.
  14. pr0gr4m

    pr0gr4m Well-Known Member

    How do you know I'm pretty? You've never seen me before. Maybe i'm an ugly angry dude. Damn.

    You're an idiot. You did not come here asking for a good alternative to the Waves Doubler. You asked, and I quote, "Anyone have any recommendations for a good cloner/ doubler?"

    The use of the term "cloner" in that question, here on an recording forum, implies that you may be new to recording which is why I asked, and I quote, "what EXACTLY do you mean by cloner/doubler?".

    Although you described in some vague general terms what you were looking for, you never mentioned Waves Doubler. Had you said that from the get-go, we would ba able to make much more informed recommendations. So don't go saying "That is what I said" when it's clearly not what you said.

    But I'm willing to put all of that behind me and see if we can get down to the heart of the matter by asking you another question...

    You said that the two suggestions I provided aren't what you are looking for. That's fine. What don't they have that you want? By asking that I'm not implying that those effects are the end all be all of effects. I'm just trying to determine what it is that you ARE looking for. We know it has to have a delay. What we need to know is what ELSE does it need to have? You said it needed to be discreet (huh?) and allow for more harmonic control. I'm guessing you meant discrete and not discreet, but then your use of that word still doesn't make a lot of sense...unless you are simply saying you want a separate delay (not a friggin cloner) with more harmonic control.

    Was it the delay in those devices that you didn't like or the harmonic control options? Do they just plain sound like ass? Could it be that they weren't free? What IS it that you are looking for and when we recommend something, what is it that you don't like about them or that they don't have that you want!?!?!?!

    What about this?
  15. pr0gr4m

    pr0gr4m Well-Known Member

    I totally forgot...

    I'm ignorant. He says cloners and I'm the ignorant one. That's right...I'm focusing on one stupid thing...it's because i'm ignorant.

    Help the Hass effect how? Help prevent it? Help achieve it? For what sort of application...Is this plain old music? Live sound? WTF are you talking about.

    No wait...don't answer that. You said you are done here and I hope it's true. God I hope it's true.
  16. BDM

    BDM Active Member

    why am i so entertained by threads like this???
  17. GeckoMusic

    GeckoMusic Guest

    It's like watching the Clone Wars.
  18. StephenMC

    StephenMC Guest

    I want to kiss the OP on the mouth.
  19. Greener

    Greener Guest

    I want to know why something so funny happened at the same time as Google ads had a bar in the side of this forum and in that bar was an advert for Waves plugins.

    Is this just good timing?
    Is this good marketing?
    Who's good marketing?

    If the OP is not aware of how phase works in the slightest, how can the OP know what they do and do not want in a cloner? Has time been spent using Waves plug-ins which has yielded this information? At least I assume so because they are the reference for this thread...

    Clone me, flip my phase and I'll show you my noise floor.

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