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Considering Paris Pro questions?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Bebopper, Feb 21, 2001.

  1. Bebopper

    Bebopper Active Member

    Hi all,

    Great to see a place where I can actually interact with Paris users. At the moment I am running VST 32 and want to step up to a DSP dedicated system. I haven't been to thrilled with my mixes in VST 32 and have been hearing great reviews aboout Paris' "analog-ish" sound. I am planning on recording, editting and mixing all within Paris. The biggest pain for me in Cubase is running out of processing power and constantly hitting the performance ceiling (with a Pentium 3 550). I hope to move on to a better sounding and more stable system with dedicated DSP for each channel and Paris seems to be a good match.

    Before I step into the world of Paris I just wanted to get a few concerns ironed out first.

    1. How do you like working with Paris?
    2. Any limitations as far as signal routing goes?
    3. Any problems using direct X or VST plugs?
    4. How do the EQ's and onboard FX sound?
    5. What kinds of ceilings have you hit working with high track counts and plugin counts?
    6. How well does the control surface work with the software? Can you tweak most parameters?

    Thanks in adavance for your kind response!

    I seem to be leaning towards Paris more than Pro Tools not only because of it's pricing but it also seems to be the better choice as far as sound quality when mixed and summed internally.

    my signal path:
    mic/line level>Neve 1073>RNC compressor>Apogee Rosetta

    My mixes still sound flat compared to mixes bused to an anaolg console.

    Thanks again!
    -Bop
    :D
     
  2. Dedric

    Dedric Guest

    1. How do you like working with Paris?
    - Paris is a fantastic tool, esp. for tracking and mixing.

    2. Any limitations as far as signal routing goes?
    - Not really - you can insert native and EDS effects on any track, AUX sends can be sent to EDS effects and external gear. You can't insert native (DX/VST) plugins on Aux buses, but that will be an option in native submixes in v3.0. (auxes are processed on the EDS card so there isn't a way to reroute that audio back out to the CPU for native processing for card-based submixes, but native submixes will be host-based processed and mixed audio, so that option exists in that case. The software patchbay is very flexible and makes rerouting a breeze - storing routing libraries comes in handy for quick recall and switching during a session.

    3. Any problems using direct X or VST plugs?
    Currently the only issue is with Waves VST (Mac only - not an issue if you are staying with your PC for Paris). Plugin selection isn't remembered by Paris - individual settings are, but one must select each plugin, in order of tracks, each time a project is opened (Waveshell prompts you for them). You don't lose any of your mix settings, you just have to write down which Waves plugins go on which track. This is fixed in v3.0 (due any day now)
    4. How do the EQ's and onboard FX sound?
    The EQ is transparent - good for leveling of freq. bands, but other outboard EQ's probably have a better character for sound shaping (Waves Ren EQ would be in this list). The EDS reverbs are pretty good for very short rev. times and reflections, but not for smooth lead vocal halls (the plate isn't bad for snares, etc - not Lexicons or TC's, but still useful in a quality mix). The Chorus is pretty good - a little metallic for some things. The delays are good, and flexible. The EDS compressor is quite different than other comps - great for drums, acoustic guitar, and a variety of other things, but not my choice for vocals. It does work very well once you get used to it, but it takes tweaking - most of the presets aren't good representatives. I use many of the EDS effects, EQ and compression in each mix I do without hesitation, and often as a first choice over high-end plugins.

    5. What kinds of ceilings have you hit working with high track counts and plugin counts?
    Most people are getting between 20 and 40 plugins on powerful PCs (800MHz and up) and G4s. I have run 16 Ren Comps and 16 Ren EQ 4s on my G4 450. In another case I've run about 7 Autotunes with a handful of other Waves plugins. I generally run about 20 or so VST plugins on a mix with no problems. That in addition to EDS EQ, Comps and effects.

    6. How well does the control surface work with the software? Can you tweak most parameters?

    You can automate mixes (track levels, mutes, panning, effect returns/mutes, and master level/mute/panning); tweak EDS EQ (all 4 bands), Aux send levels and panning; and edit audio segments (location, length, start/end points via jog-wheel). You don't have access to plugin parameters, but I don't find that necessary - I can mouse/type faster for some things anyway.

    Sound quality is probably the best feature of Paris, and IMO the most important for a DAW. If it doesn't sound good, it doesn't matter if you can edit until the cows come home (which Paris does very well - crossfading is easy, comps are a breeze and you should look at "Freeform" mode for recording multiple takes - very nice).

    Paris will take your recordings and mixes to another level. The summing/mixing bus is stellar. You will find depth to mixes, "air" in the HF ranges and clarity in dense mixes that would be cost quite a lot more to achieve with a traditional console/recording system. The 24-bit I/O card converters are up there with the best out there, and you may not need the Apogee for general A/D. I run mic pres and all of my keyboard direct into Paris 24-bit I/O, and monitor direct from a 24-bit out card because it sounds so good.
     
  3. Bebopper

    Bebopper Active Member

    Deddric,

    You have me salivating as I type this reply...You pretty much eased all my concerns with Paris. Indeed my main reason for choosing Paris is the the "sound" it can achieve without a big (and expensive) desk. The ability to use outboard FX is also a great plus in my book. Very cool. The lack of DX plugs routing to the aux sends sounds like something I can work around and 3.0 seems to addresss this issue so I am fully sold. Thanks for your time and your helpful response. Now if only they would ship 3.0 so I can go out and max my charge card again.

    Many thanks!

    By the way is it true that the AMD Athlon is the CPU of choice? What about the Thunderbird? Seems to be a newer chip from AMD. If so looks like I will need a mobo and CPU upgrade as well. :eek:

    Thanks again for your thoughtful reply!

    -Bop
     
  4. Dedric

    Dedric Guest

    Originally posted by C. Cortez:

    By the way is it true that the AMD Athlon is the CPU of choice? What about the Thunderbird? Seems to be a newer chip from AMD. If so looks like I will need a mobo and CPU upgrade as well. :eek:


    The Athlon is a favorite, but a PIII500 should be fine (depending on motherboard and current PCI slot useage - PCI video cards tend to be problematic with audio cards) - you just won't get the plugin count an Athlon 1.2GHz would get (actually an Athlon 500 would probably yield a couple more plugins). Upgrading depends on how much power you need/want. There are Paris users running on PII300s - most eventually go to an Athlon - the Thunderbird is a good processor. ASUS motherboards get good comments (if you get an ATA100 mb, just run enable it down to ATA66 instead - 100 isn't working well yet). The MSI 6195K7 mb works very well too (actually I think there is a newer model, but I haven't heard about it). I am running Paris on a Mac G4, so I don't have all of the PC skinny, but you should be able to successfully start off with Paris on your PIII if you want (unless you want to dedicate it to Cubase, and build a new machine for Paris - if so - go with a Thunderbird - someone found the MSI mb with Athlon 950 for $230 delivered a couple of weeks ago - quite a steal - I think it went back up over $300 though).
     
  5. Tony C

    Tony C Guest

    Dedric,
    Is it posible to use the Paris hardware set up with other software apps., like Cubase, DP, Logic etc..? Or, will it just not be as good?
     
  6. mhobbs

    mhobbs Guest

    Originally posted by Tony C:
    Dedric,
    Is it posible to use the Paris hardware set up with other software apps., like Cubase, DP, Logic etc..? Or, will it just not be as good?


    Hi,

    I'm not Dedric, but I'm also a long-time Paris user.

    You can use Paris hardware through ASIO drivers to work with Cubase, Logic, etc., but ASIO only allows access to the basic hardware inputs. The MEC has 4 20-bit analog inputs and outputs and SPDIF I/O, which you will be able to access via ASIO. However, any expasion I/O added to the MEC will not be recognized via ASIO. Also, the EDS effects are not accessible via ASIO. Furthermore, the latency experienced while using ASIO doesn't make it worthwhile for me.

    I typically sync Paris and Logic Audio on the same machine so that I can run Logic midi and Paris audio simultaineously. This works well for me.

    Hope this helps,
    -Michele
     
  7. Dedric

    Dedric Guest

    Hi Michele! Welcome to RO! The more input the merrier. :)
     
  8. osmuir

    osmuir Member

    paris "PRO" question...

    other than the fancy blue paint and the new control 16 layout, is there any hardware difference between good 'old paris and PRO? are the converters better? can i put "Pro" cards in my old MEC?

    etc etc...

    --owen
     
  9. Dedric

    Dedric Guest

    Originally posted by owen muir:
    paris "PRO" question...

    other than the fancy blue paint and the new control 16 layout, is there any hardware difference between good 'old paris and PRO? are the converters better? can i put "Pro" cards in my old MEC?
    --owen


    No difference. Same MEC, cards, etc. Just the blue paint and C16 layout are new - Emu's way of relaunching Paris as their product instead of the defunct Ensoniq. The big change in the Paris Pro bundle is the inclusion of 3.0 software (when available), which is of course compatible with all Paris systems.
     

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