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Control Surface Recommendations Please!

Discussion in 'Consols & Control Surfaces' started by SPIT, Dec 15, 2004.

  1. SPIT

    SPIT Guest

    Im after a reasonably priced control surface with motorized faders for use with Nuendo and/or Reason.

    Im arent too knowledgeable about Control surfaces so any help/recommendations would be great. Would like to control as much as possible.

    many thanks

  2. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Distinguished Member

    Oct 7, 2001
    Mackie Control, without doubt! Wonderful, expandable, and inexpensive!
  3. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    inexpensive go to the tascam us2400
    25 moving faders for around 1500$
  4. JeffreyMajeau

    JeffreyMajeau Active Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    What about that new Behringer dealie? It looks like just the thing for my little Pro Tools rig. Anyone have any reports from the field on it?

  5. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Mar 8, 2004
    Fredericksburg, VA

    Personally, I really LOVE the Radikal SAC 2.2. For the money, it's hard to beat. I've owned a few - the Tascam FW1884(which BTW, I owned 5 of them and got rid of them all - every single one of them had the same defect. In every case, if you touch any fader and the #4 fader at the same time, the #4 fader stops working :evil: ), the Mackie Control (allbeit, not the MC Universal) and the Radikal. The build quality and fader movement and especially the jog are far better on the Radikal than any of the other devices.

    Am I assuming correctly to think that you are in Europe somewhere? If I'm correct, the Radikal is made in Germany and would be tariff free.


  6. midiwhale

    midiwhale Guest

    DM-24 vs 02R

    The Begringer bcf2000 is incredibly good vlaue and the new 1.7 software stops the fader hunting issue it had.
    It works well in SX with the control feedback etc..
    It has 64 cotnroller assignment scenes so it's pretty open ended.

    It now supports HUI mode plus the Windows editor beta is out.

    The faders are smooth and quiet - albeit not SSL standard.

    My only issue is that it is 8 channels - like 90% of the controllers out there.
    I know looks shouldn't count but.... I don't really want two things tacked together side by side.

    Also the controls are UNLABELLED so you have to remember.
    Controllers with LCD readouts by them are really the wya to go IMHO.

    The MotorMate and Motor Mix "V2" really seem to be the BMW of controllers IMHO - but it soon adds up!

    The Mackie Control with extension was my second preference- but it is "MacKie" ! And you know how well they support and follow through with the Hui (never serial port) and DB8.

    I've been agnonsiing over a Digidesign 002 for ages, but I've decided not to panda to industry hype after all ;-)
    I'll just keep my 001 and MBox - but really I'm a Cubase girl.
    Most people seem to hate the 002 mic pres and audio quality anyway! And I doubt Digidesign care much about 3rd party support for Cubase, etc..

    So my question is....
    would you prefer a Tascam DM-24 (undoubtely about to be replaced) but has some 96khz support
    or the already defunct
    Yamaha 02R (not the 96khz - OOMPR)

    IN PARTICULAR the MIDI controller capabilities.

    From the DM-24 manual it isn't clear how many presets of control assignments you can have. You seem to be able to assign the controls to anything MIDI but perhaps only once ?
    Also in 96Khz mode isn't it 16 instead of 32 - NOT 12 channel audio ??
    It also supports HUI mode but only 8 channels :-(
    Apparently the audio industry has no thumbs and static elbows :?

    (The US2400 suports 3 instances of HUI to get 24 channels - nightmare ?)

    On the 02R can you assign the controls to any MIDI values and how many sets of these can you have in presets?

    i.e. in one preset can it be mix (level/pan) and in another say editing a VST plug-in ?

    Several people have said the DM-24 "sounds" better than the 02R. Mic pres and general quality. Mixes sound way more open apparently.

    So I'm not sure why I'm dithering.....

    Must be that industry hype again ;-)

    Mnay thanks.
  7. David French

    David French Distinguished Member

    Jun 19, 2002
    Never met a girl named Peter before... ;)

    Thanks for the opinions.
  8. frob

    frob Well-Known Member

    Apr 23, 2004
    the thing that keeps me from the berhirnger is the lack of the transport controles the one thing i really want in one. thats why ive desided to DIY

  9. trock

    trock Active Member

    Aug 20, 2004
    check out the yamaha o1X

    it was made with steinberg for cubase/nuendo
  10. adamw

    adamw Guest

    I have a Radikal SAC 2K that I use with Nuendo 1.6 on a PC. I really love it, it allows me to have hands on control like I would with a full sized console. You can record automation with it, and it just allows me to be more creative with my limited audio time.

    Speaking of mixing, if anybody's feeling in a funk mood, I mixed this little diddy by Phat Phunktion on my Radikal at home, and would welcome/appreciate any comments you folks would have. (Apart from "you need to learn how to EQ horns"!)

  11. midiwhale

    midiwhale Guest

    02r or dm-24??

    Thanks guys ;-)

    but neither the Radical or 01x have 16 faders.....

    So which do you think might be better as a control surface?

    The Yamaha 02R or the Tascam DM-24 ??
    (They both have 16 faders)
  12. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Mar 8, 2004
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Still, I think the Radikal is the better choice above the Tascam or the O2R. With the push of a single button, you can switch fader banks on the Radikal up to 4 times. Meaning, you can control channels 1-8, then push a button and you're now controlling 9-16, another push - 17-24, and another push - 25-32. Of course, it also has the option for you to only move up one at a time: at first 1-8, with the push of the button 2-9 etc.

    Ultimately, there are no control surfaces that are more widely accepted by more software platforms than the Radikal. It is set up as native in most every program including Logic, PT, Cubase, Nuendo, Pyramix, DP, you name it.

    The others that you mentioned at some point have to do some type of emulation. Also - I've never been a fan of all in one boxes - mixer, preamps, converters, control surface all in one unit. If one breaks, the whole thing is virtually useless.

    As usual, this is my opinion, but bear in mind - I'm always right :twisted:

  13. midiwhale

    midiwhale Guest

    Thanks J,
    I concur about the all in one concept, but if any one piece of my audio chain went fut, I'd still need to hire in something, as they're all vital....
    And think of the cabling and space I'll save ;-)

    BTW how many fingers and thumbs do you have ?

    Just wondering :lol:

    (secretly you want 2 Radical's - go on admit it ?!)
  14. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Mar 8, 2004
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Exactly my point - I can't control more than 8 channels at a time, so I don't need my control surface to have more than 8 channels. Truthfully, if I did have 2 Radikals, I would have one set up for level automation and the other set up so that the faders were used for effects automation for things such as EQ.

  15. Sanity Inn

    Sanity Inn Guest

    hers a link with reviews of different controllers


  16. adamw

    adamw Guest

    Re: DM-24 vs 02R

    neither of which have LCD channel strips.

    After rereading your original post, I was reminded that you were interested in MIDI capabilities. Since I don't have a use for it, I have no idea what the MIDI capabilities of the Radikal are, but it does have a "MIDI" mode button, and quite a lot of Midi Instrument control modes.

    The great thing about the Radikal is that is completely software controlled, so you can theoretically do anything you want with it. The problem with that is you're totally dependent on software to implement what you want to do. If you have a favorite midi control software (Reason springs to mind), see if they have a section for control surfaces and see what features are offered. With 12 independently assigned encoders and 8 faders, the Radikal could be a great tool, if somebody's written it into the software you use.

    I don't have any personal experience with the O2R or the DM-24, but I have worked with the Yamaha 01V, which was the O2R's smaller brother, if I remember correctly. And though it got the job done, the 01V was just really annoying to use. The whole structure of the menus, the layout of the console was weird, it was just not a fun piece of equipment to use. I have been in a theatre that did use 2 O2Rs for their multichannel setup, because they are very flexible mixers. I think that all of the faders were assignable to midi channels, but I'd check the documentation on the ones you're looking at to be sure.
  17. underworld

    underworld Guest

    Radikal rocks

    I need to add my opinion of the Radikal 2.2K.

    I bought it only recently used from a dealer in California. It arrived and I couldn't get it working. I spent the weekend trading e-mails with their tech guy in Germany ( I think). He was up all hours whenever I emailed and usually responded within a few hours. It turns out he was also part of the design team and knew a LOT about the unit. After spending the weekend and not resolving the problem, I did - unfortunately - have to send the unit in for repair. They fixed it - no questions asked. Some of the BEST support I've ever seen for a product.

    Now, in use - I really enjoy this thing. The faders are great - the rotaries are also nice. Finding your way around takes a little time since there's not a "published" guide for each app (at least not that I've seen). For example, I'm still not sure how to arm a track for automation remotely.... maybe someone here knows how?

    Anyway - the moving faders are awesome and with Nuendo I think you get unlimited track support - the track up/down buttons will continue moving up/down until you reach the end of your tracks. Plus you can navigate in groups of 8. Also, the track names are displayed so you know which track is which. In "Mackie" mode, you even get a "metering" function on the display. I prefer the Radikal mode though... seems to be more functional on the transport.

    I paid about $800 which included a 6 month warranty from the dealer. But you can find them on ebay for less ($500 to $600). I did a ton of research before buying and found this to be one of the most desirable surfaces - particularly for Nuendo.

    Hope this info helps - and good luck!
  18. dkelley

    dkelley Active Member

    Apr 26, 2005
    If anybody's still reading this for answers, I have a behringer bcf2000 and it does have transport controls. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I have all controls on the behringer, I only use my mouse for very unusual things. Great product, 1.07 OS makes it really really solid and fun to use. And you can piggy back several of them in a row so it's an expandable solution. Start with one, add another (or a bcr) when you have the money. the bcr is great for synth and plugin control but not really too great for mixing from my experience. The leds on the bcr just don't show enough detail to help. 100mm faders in the bcf are foolproof though.

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