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Conversion with Apogee Rosetta 200

Discussion in 'Converters / Interfaces' started by Groff, Mar 18, 2005.

  1. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    Hello,

    I'm interesting about Rosetta 200.

    Is it possible to convert 24/96 master (from PC, hard disc) to 16/44.1 (trough the XFirewire card and with applying Rosetta's SRC and UV22) without using digital out and external digital recorder?

    PATH: PC (mastered track 24/96) –> XFirewire –> Rosetta 200 (SRC, UV22) –> 16/44.1 –> Xfirewire -> routing back to PC hard disc.

    Is it better way at all? Any other affordable solution with good results?

    Until now, I was working only with software all inside the box, so I’m on new and strange land. Can’t go on without your help.

    Could you get me a hand here? :roll:

    Thanks
     
  2. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    I don't think you can do this. I think you would have to go to another recorder. I've never tried it but you would most likely have to have two programs running at the same time using 2 different interfaces as they would have to be clocking to 2 different clocks. So it might be possible to come out digital into the 200, src and uv22, out the firewire and into another program running at the same time clocked to the firewire. I've never tried it so I can't tell you if it would work. Although I will be getting a x-firewire card soon and can try it then. right now i'm using a masterlink as a playback or recorder which you can get for a few hundred bucks.
     
  3. TotalSonic

    TotalSonic Guest

    I play and record back on a single DAW at different sample rates using the digital i/o of 2 different soundcards all the time using SAWStudio.

    SAWStudio allows you to launch 2 (or more) instances at once. You need 2 different soundcards and they must not share clocks - but at this point you can get a 24bit/96kHZ PCI card with spdif i/o for all of $100. You set each instance of SAW to only recognize the one soundcard it is to use at the sample rate you are either playing at or recording at.

    So my path for this is
    SAWStudio #1 playing at 24bit/96kHz -> Lynx One AES out -> Z-Sys router -> Lavry Blue DAC ->
    (analog process chain)
    Mytek Stereo96 ADC -> Z-Sys router -> Terratec Phase 22 spdif in -> SAWStudio #2 recording at 24bit/44.1kHz

    I then do any additional assembly at 24bit and then requantize/add dither in the box - although you could certainly dither using the ADC's options and capture back at 16bit if you wished.

    I believe many other apps such as Samplitude can also launch multiple instances - and you can always launch a second app such as Sound Forge to record back if your app can't launch multiple instances. It's important to set each of the apps to only recognize a single card or you'll get a "device in use by other app" error message when doing this.

    So for your instance it should be simple to just get a second card with a digital input on it and have it set to record back from the Rosetta 200 at the different rate.

    In this case it would be:
    DAW App #1 at 24bit/96kHz -> Firewire device -> Rossetta 200 -> 2nd sound card digital i/o -> DAW app# recording at 16bit/44.1kHz

    Best regards,
    Steve Berson
     
  4. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Yes, that would work, but I think he wants both i/o through the firewire without a soundcard, I don't know if the 200 can do that at 2 different sample rates. you could also use the lynx src card that has built in SRC.
     
  5. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    Thanks for replays


    This is replay from Apogee for the same question:

    The function that you want to do will work, except you cannot use the Firewire as the input and output at the same time. You can use any digital source to the Firewire out, or Firewire in to any digital audio output.
    What does it mean :? ?


    You’re right. Now I see.

    I would like to use those in Rosetta. I saw good reports about it. What’s your opinion?


    Can you recommend some models?

    What to prefer: AES or SPDIF?

    Is there some differences between AES and SPDIF in jitter or else?

    Any differences in digital in/out quality between cheap and h-prices cards?

    It could be something for me.

    Not clocking two digital card at all? Because different in/out resolutions?


    2nd card vs. external recorder?


    But XFirewire in (from PC) and any digital out (from Rosetta) at 2 different sample rates works?

    I guess Rosetta is better in SRC than Lynx?


    Thank you very much in advance
     
  6. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Basically the 200 can operate at 2 different clocks, 1 for the input and 1 for the output. now you can take any input reclock it and send it out any output except for the firewire port. you can't have 2 different clocks on the firewire. So, you will need a way to capture or send a signal into or out of the 200 in addition to the firewire port. I wouldn't concern myself with spdif or aes, both are good, one has bigger connectors. The question is what program are you using, can it open up 2 sessions at once and each session clocked to a different input? if it can then see what they recommend as a digital card for their software.
     
  7. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    I'm using Vegas 5 for tracking and Sound Forge 6 as editor. But I could move to any other.

    If get it right:

    a) 1st program (24/96) -> firewire -> Rosetta-> 16/44.1 -> AES or SPDIF -> digital in (2nd card) -> 2nd program

    or also

    b) 1st program (24/96) -> digital out (2nd card) -> AES or SPDIF -> Rosetta -> 16/44.1 -> firewire -> 2nd program



    I'm upgrading my small studio (mostly for tracking and mixing) and searching for good 2 ch. converter, which I could use for both tracking and mastering. I know that is not so good and wise, but I could afford only one for now. Lavry Blue/Lynx seems to be better combination, unfortunately out of my range, so new Rosetta with CODA system and Xfirewire card rests as choice. I didn't have opportunity to listen or try SRC and UV22 HR, so I'm wondering about worth of investment.
    I'm recording mostly rock/pop-rock, occasionally ethno-acoustic.


    Thank you for your time and help
     
  8. TotalSonic

    TotalSonic Guest

    A couple really inexpensive 24bit/96kHz capable spdif cards (i.e. $100) are the M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 and the Terratec Phase 22. When choosing between these I ended up getting a Phase 22 because the spdif connection on it can output at 192kHz, and the analog i/o (which I've actually never used to date but figured might as well have more useable if I wanted to) are on balanced 1/4" TRS connectors instead of RCA's.

    Main difference between spdif and AES is the length of cable you can "safely" connect to it without possibly increasing jitter. With spdif cables the general recommendation is to have them 15' at maximum. With AES you can have long lengths up to even say above 75' without significant measurable degradations.

    Seems to me for an investment of $100 you could do what you wanted.

    Vegas playing out at 24/96 -> Firewire output -> Rosetta -> spdif card input -> Soundforge recording at 16/44.1

    Best regards,
    Steve Berson
     
  9. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    Thanks Steve, good advice.

    Guys, you are GREAT :D :cool: :D


    Life is good!

    Finally, I know the biggest secret of mastering!

    From now, please call me dr. MASTERing engineer 8)

    (kidding)
     
  10. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    Me, again

    Need some more light...

    I compared short samples of different requantization systems from:

    http://audio.rightmark.org/lukin/dither/#samples

    UV 22 vs. L2 Ultra vs. ExtraBit Ultra (between the others)

    Obviously, UV 22 is far, far noisier than others two (tails). I'm shocked. I was thinking about Apogee...
    However, seems to me that signal of the sample before tail is a (microscopic) bit brighter and wider under UV 22 (or maybe it's just my ears phatamorgana)

    Still can't believe.... it’s so bad :shock:

    Is this some kind of poor implementation of plug-in version UV 22 (Cubase/Nuendo) or is it real hardware stuff?

    What is your opinion and experience?


    Thanks
     
  11. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Well, I personally use pow-r dither but I have the uv22 and to tell you the truth, there isn't a HUGE difference. Both sound good and if you were to play me a song, I couldn't tell you what dither was used. I don't know about any comparison things and there is not really 1 do it all dither for me. Sometimes I use this, sometimes that. completely depends. I can say that I used uv22 for many years and the 200 has uv22hr which sounds even better. The SRC sounds very good.
     
  12. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    How? Why?

    Result of dithering should be maximum resolution with minimum audible noise. I guess it's not so hard to find out.
    Sorry if I bother, but can’t reach the logic. If something is better (resolution/noise) it’s simply better or we’re talking about the same old story of subjectivity and taste.

    Thanks for reply
    With kind regards
     
  13. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Certain dithers can add or take away somthing from the track, IMO. Sometimes a radically noiseshaped dither can brighten the track or put a sheen on it. It's more of a subjective taste thing. Some seem to work better or worse depending on the type of music or mix. sometimes it's your mind screwing with you.
     
  14. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    Lucky me, have a good friend. :mrgreen:


    Thanks for your time and replays.
     
  15. YOUNGMOE

    YOUNGMOE Guest

    hmm
    if i have both nuendo 2 and 3 on my computer, i could do that
     
  16. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    Youngmoe, have you Rosetta 200?
     

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