Dealing with reverb tails

Discussion in 'Tracking / Mixing / Editing' started by Bamon, Nov 2, 2003.

  1. Bamon

    Bamon Guest

    Greetings, all! I know many people which prefer route returns from reverbs in channel strips of the desk. Thus they sometimes eq and/or compress them. What are the benefits of this srategy? I mean in studio work, not in live work?
     
  2. Midlandmorgan

    Midlandmorgan Active Member

    EQ to reverb can add a more controlled sound, by cutting the lowend some that makes it muddy at times...eqing reverb also lets you get away with using a lot less - good for the overall mix...

    I don't think compressing reverb results in anything useful...there may be another way to do it, but to my ears it just turns nuance and detail into mush...I prefer to add a bit of compression to the source, but leave the reverbs and their tails alone.

    But that just my way of doing it.
     
  3. Bamon

    Bamon Guest

    Can you explain this statement, please? How this thing works?
     
  4. white swan

    white swan Guest

    You may also want to cut the high end of the reverb, either to make it sound like a more natural space or to reduce sibilance.

    Another thing you might want to try as a cool special effect is to pan the reverb to the opposite side of the mix as the dry source.
     
  5. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    Well, eq is always useful to taylor the overall tone of the reverb. Many reverbs (and many processors in general) don't handle peak signals or low level signals without some nasty sounding artifacts. Many reverbs also don't react well to hard or fast transients at any level and can sound very bad/harsh.

    Compression and/or limiting prior to sending to the reverb can smooth out levels and/or prevent big spikes of reverb that can punch holes in the overall reverb balance. Compression after the reverb can be used to sustain the best part of the reverb tail before it quickly fades into the grainy cutoff area.
     
  6. falkon2

    falkon2 Well-Known Member

    Good point! Never thought about that.
     
  7. Sen

    Sen Guest

    That for sure...I'm still to hear a reverb that sounds good without cutting the highs...maybe a personal taste, but I would always recommend it
     
  8. realdynamix

    realdynamix Well-Known Member

    :) My 2 centSSsssssssss, there are times when the return verb can be EQ'd to present a far different version of the dry signal. The EQ in this case would be preverb, upstream of the verb. Try it on a string track. The EQ will change the tonal character of the strings. This is of course an effect. Remember "Bread" any Ray Conniff, Horste Jankowski. The effect seems to place the sounds in a different space for a pleasing effect. Not necessarily true to life, but very pleasing.

    --Rick
     
  9. Bamon

    Bamon Guest

    Yes. I think you can avoid masking that can happens with shorter times and use much less reverb this way. Am I right?
     
  10. white swan

    white swan Guest

    Bamon,

    I notice you are from Russia. I would be fascinated to hear from you what the general situation is there for home recording.

    What kind of gear is readily available? What kind of computers? How much does stuff cost relative to to typical annual income? Are Oktava micropones easily available and commonly used? What other Russian-made gear is very common, or do you see mostly stuff from formerly East Germany like Gefell?

    Hope you don't mind answering these questions, but I've never had a chance to talk to a Russian musician/engineer before! :tu:
     
  11. realdynamix

    realdynamix Well-Known Member

    :) I never thought about *if* I was using less, I can't say for sure. One thing I noticed, and this was early on, after running a pink noise through a plate reverb, the curve was like this , not as steep but way more low end then high end.

    Well, on my Lexicon, on the plate setting, I applied the same pink noise, and came up with almost a flat response. I know there is HF roll-off to play with, and a cross-over range. But, that wasn't enough to get what I was looking for.

    So, even after playing with parameters, I ended up placing an EQ in the chain. The reverb could be shaped around the dry signal making it seem more fluid.

    Setting the decay rate would be dependent on timing, I would not like to cloud up anything. I was surprised at how effective it is, and wondered, why so many verb programs, be it hall, room or plate, were relativley flat?

    --Rick
     
  12. by

    by Guest

    An interesting effect I've recently discovered (though nothing real innovative):

    Put a compressor after the reverb and then side chain that to the original audio track so that on loud parts the reverb is turned down and on quiet parts it's turned up. Obviously you'll want slow attack and release, but if you do this on a drum track try setting it faster, and tweak till you get it pumping in time. You can set it up so that whenever the drum plays, the reverb is completely silent, then it rushes in and gets it's loudest at the next beat. Or you could go for a much gentler approach - and even use a multiband comp and have it scoot outta the dry signals way at different freqs - can be cool and interesting sounding but also useful for clearing up mud I suppose (I've never tried it)

    Another obvous thing to do is to put a gate on the reverb - before it to accent the peaks. Putting the gate after the reverb can be cool sounding too, sorta choking it off after some duration. These probably aren't "useful" other then as effects of course....
     
  13. realdynamix

    realdynamix Well-Known Member

    :) I have to try that! Sounds interesting.
    :tu:

    I have a collection of verbs from Alesis, small Lexi's and a PCM 70. They all have a gate function in the parimeters. This adjusment will cut the reverb dead off at whatever setting. It gives that gated plate sound to, but for better results I use an expander for a smoother gate function, also it gives more options for attack and release etc.

    --Rick
     
  14. falkon2

    falkon2 Well-Known Member

    Gating snare reverb can make for some really interesting slapback effects. Turn up the treble, gate then compress the reverb, and you get something of a solid thwack-in-a-vaccuum effect.
     
  15. Bamon

    Bamon Guest

    It is difficult for me to speak for all people in Russia, therefore I ask to consider my words as to my personal opinion.

    Practically everything, that is accessible in the USA, except for small new hi-end brands. Esoteric devices, such as Manley, Prism, dcS and others are available by special orders.

    Professional studios use Macs and Logic, sometimes Pro Tools. In the home recording... PC's with Cubase/Nuendo, sometimes Sonar are more often.

    The situation depends on your location. In Moscow the income of people bigger and is about 10000 $ in a year. In a province income is less, approximately 5000 $ in a year. But it is necessary to take into account that now in the country significant differentiation of the population under incomes is observed. Practically, there is no middle class. The equipment costs more dearly than at USA, approximately 15-30 % percent high. That's why the situation compels to support domestic manufacturers, because cheap brands as Behringer, Phonic etc. are not usable at all.

    Yes, Oktava's are easily accessible and from time to time ;) they are in use. But usually there are also other microphones, not only the Oktava's.

    No, you can see Gefell less often, than Neumann ;) . In the market also there are old tube mics LOMO. They are difficult enough for finding, the price approximately from 1000 up to 2000 dollars, but they have that sound. Concerning other brands. They are, let out very good products, but I think they are not known at USA, as far as I know, only receive the iso certificates which are necessary for trade outside Russia.

    Your welcome! If you want more deatiled info, just ask me.
     
  16. white swan

    white swan Guest

    Thank you so much, B.! :h:
     

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