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digi 002

Discussion in 'Pro Audio Equipment' started by JesseFree, Aug 25, 2002.

  1. JesseFree

    JesseFree Guest

    Hello. This may have been discussed before, and if it has been, feel free to direct me to that thread. Here's my question

    I am looking into getting a protools setup for mac. It is mainly for consumer use in my house. Is digi002 the way to go now, or is it wiser to maybe get 001 and get the harware separately. (I need at least 4 mic pre's)

    thanks,
    any help is much appreciated
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Digi 002 is more than a beefed up 001. It's a 24 /96, 32 track, firewire or pci card interface, control surface, protools LE software and hardware package. A whole new product. Looks really sweet.
     
  3. e-cue

    e-cue Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2000
    If it would only take a SMPTE input to lock up........
     
  4. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    With 32 tracks I'm sure someone could spare 1 for timecode and chase the 002. Fats.
     
  5. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2001
    I have made my feelings known on various forums but here goes again,

    I don't think it makes sense.

    Even if the DSP becomes available to PT in future releases etc.
    As a stand alone mix ?? So what! I wouldn't take my Digi hardware out to a gig ??
    As a control surface. OK it's a control surface and you have to decide how much that is worth to you.
    96k ....
    Yep it's 96k. I am only just now going across to 24bit and I have been on Mixplus since the release. If you need 96K then get it cos the MBox may not be enough for you.

    Can you live with the MBox?
    if not why not? It's ok if you don't like it but just tell me why.

    The 002 on the desk top will make the desk top a mess and full of wires ... mic leads and midi leads and Firewire cable .... monitoring leads ... yuck!

    No talk back as such.

    I have more !

    Tell me your thoughts and I'll add more and give you my reasons for another choice.
     
  6. e-cue

    e-cue Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2000
    I suppose... If you don't mind it not technically being locked with the D/A delay.
     
  7. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    E-cue,
    You are correct, that would be a wild sync but there still are ways to generate a sample locked smpte. You could drive off the midi on the 002 and convert to smpte through a BRC or generate smpte on a BRC and lock computer word clock to the BRC. I haven't ever done this, but wouldn't that work? Fats
     
  8. themidiroom

    themidiroom Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    St Louis
    Can exisiting Digi001 users upgrade to the new PT version and have 32 tracks? :c:
     
  9. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2001
    Yes,
    I believe both PC and Mac are on the web site. I will point out that I have not done this yet so I am just going on info on other forums.

    This does not give 96k to the 001. (and it may never happen)

    It will be interesting to see what Core Audio will bring to the Digidesign Hardware.
     
  10. e-cue

    e-cue Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2000
    Hmmm.... good idea. In this senerio,you are driving off midi, and aren't you still going to get like a 5 ms slop? Won't this freak out the clock reference that is basically suppling the positional sync (which should be correcting that midi slop)? I think I missed something here.

    And ultimately, we are talking about buying MORE gear to get this to work. Something most people instrested in the 002 can't/don't want to afford.
     
  11. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2001
    Before I bought my Mix + I had the Digi001.
    I used a MidiTimePiece AV. It allowed me to chase with TC. Was only as accurate as Midi allowed, but across a 5 minute song the drift was negigible. But good enough to fly stuff in (like vocals) fix and fly back. I mean, with Lynxes we were usually only having the machines resolve to themselves using the code on the machines...pretty rare that anybody in the music only world was ever using black between Lynxes to have a common clock. So with that in mind...you can get around it (even though it's not as palatable as it would be, if they had given true TC support to these things)
     
  12. I think that someone starting from scratch could put together a better package from stand alone components like a mixer, outboard preamps, etc, that will get a better sound and hold value longer. The 002 will become obsolete long before individual components will. My humble opinion. Doc.
     
  13. Jonhedin

    Jonhedin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2001
    Location:
    Faroe Islands
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    Well, it's simple, 'cause there is nothing to compare to. 002 is the most perfect system I've seen so far, and I'll will get it as soon as possible.
    The next thing to compare to is 4 x the price for 002.
     
  14. e-cue

    e-cue Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2000
    Uhm. Perfect? Please explain?

    32 tracks? etc...

    What makes you think it's perfect? (at least so far?)
     
  15. e-cue

    e-cue Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2000
    I mean, don't the SMPTE issues along make it non-perfect?
     
  16. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Interesting Thread,
    Not everyone requires TC. Unless you need to fly in and out of another platform or you are doing video work why else you you need TC (please explane)? Digidesign had to hold something back in these lower cost packages to motovate people to buy their more expensive TDM systems. Also (and I may be blowing this out of my aft) , according to the manual I recieved with my Frontier audio card, most audio software that generates and reads SMPTE TC originates as MTC from the system and is converted to smpte. If this is the case what is the difference? I still wonder (I really don't know) if locking to the clock out on the computer and taking MTC to smpte will give you a sample accurate lock. Opinions? As far as extra gear that point is well taken but in my case as I am sure in others, I alredy have a lot of this stuff around from the past 10 years of doing digital audio. Any time I can find a purpose for a door stop it makes me happy! Fats
     
  17. pan

    pan Guest

    Console-Automation?

    Taht's right. The difference in those two is a very important one:
    SMPTE/EBU is analog, MTC is digital.
    So at some point, you have a D/A or A/D conversion to happen. The secret for sample(phase) accurate sync lies in this stage, combined with the SMPTE/MTC/Wordclock conversion itself.

    Certainly not with any tape-machine. Your chances are growing, if using a digital tape-machine or DAW synced by MTC and Wordclock:

    AFAIK only at 48k but that would be a good option.

    Always make shure, that you are chasing the right Master!

    Niko
     
  18. e-cue

    e-cue Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2000
    A lot of people, especially in R&B and Hiphop lock to drum machines like an MPC 3000/2000. Smpte is pretty much vital, as a lot of producers would print a 2-track stereo instrumental so they could have 30 tracks left over for vocals. Later, after the vocals are tracked, many producers re-lock to the track with the MP so they can have separated instruments for the mix. Some do this because they have to (budget, out of tracks, etc), and some do it so people can steal their drum samples, or do a track and finish it before paying them.
    Automation would require SMPTE, as would any second tape source you need to lock to the 002. And while you mentioned video, even if there was a Smpte connection, there still isn't a Video Ref connection (as far as I know).
    I didn't expect smpte, but if it had it, I'd buy one just for the portability factors (I already own 2 mix rigs).
     
  19. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    e-cue,
    I am familier with the process you described. In the early 90's I did a lot of hip hop and rap in the Bay Area and we used to do exactly what you described for many of the same reasons. The programer would prepare the music tracks, we would lay it back to the multitrack on 2 tracks and then we would do the vocals. But can't that be done with MTC or wild sync SMPTE? Isn't sample accurate / work clock / timecode only necesseary for transfers between digital devices? Even the newer budget digital consoles accomodate MTC for automation. My guess is the designers at Digidesign reasoned that most people will use the 001 and 002 as a stand alone piece, pehaps with a MIDI keyboard / drum machine/ sampler rig. This is certianly not a live tracking rig with only 8 tracks to disk at a time. I know w/ external converters you can get 18 at once but really who is going to do all that? Once your there there are a lot of reasons to go with somthing else. As far as automation for consoles, unless your using a digital console again won't wild sync work? While were on consoles, one of the main reasons I wanted to get into recording and mixing in the computer is to get rid of the console and the associated costs of keeping it running, installing patchbays, cableing etc. ( In 5 years I spent over 5 large on my MCI 600, in maintainance alone!) It certianly isn't because the computer sounds better, 'cause it doesn't, or (for me) because of editing and performance correction. I personally think that is ruining music. It's because it's more cost effective and it gives me the opportunity to stay on a level playing field with the guys who get this stuff and play with themselves at home with no overhead. Th-Th-Th-Thats all folks! Fats

    "Everyone thinks they're Stevie Wonder"
     
  20. e-cue

    e-cue Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2000
    Yes. You are correct, and make very good points. Basically, I'm just saying, I can't use this easily in a pro enviroment. Don't get me wrong, I've tracked and mixed songs completely in 001 in the past that have done very well. But I hate it when I get 4 or 5 Digi 001 sessions from a producer that didn't know how to properly lock his system together (if at ALL sometimes!). Some of the prosumer market products make the pro market suffer.
     

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