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Distortion Sounds

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Guitarfreak, Apr 23, 2009.

  1. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    Know this is in the wrong section, sorry I didn't want to step on the amp thread currently going on in the budget forum. Anyway, I am looking at either or both an all tube amp for recording and a distortion pedal that's better than what I have now.

    Tones I like include:

    Low Gain:
    Just Surrender- Our Work of Art
    Taking Back Sunday - Twenty Twenty Surgery

    Med Gain:
    Breaking Benjamin - Medicate
    Senses Fail - Sick or Sane

    High Gain:
    Crossfade - Disco
    Crossfade - Cold
     
  2. song4gabriel

    song4gabriel Active Member

    I have a '66 blackface Fender Chanp and an Ibanez 808 reissue. For recording it's awesome. You can get a champ on ebay for 300-500. Silverface is the same thing, er close enough. Pedal is $180, but Ibanez also makes the TS9 tubescreamer pedal for $99 which is prett close. If you want more chugga chugga the BOss Metalzone is also excellent.

    I wish I new the bands you mentioned but I have been in a cave for the last 10 years
     
  3. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    link removed

    link removed

    You say they are almost the same thing...but there's an $80 difference lol. This makes me want to get the more expensive one because I hate cheap versions/knockoffs. How do they compare?
     
  4. song4gabriel

    song4gabriel Active Member

    well there IS a difference. but since you were on a budget i recommended the TS9. The chips are different, I find the TS9 to have a bit more pronounced high while the 808 has a meatier midrantge. If I never had one to compare with the other, I would be happy with either one.
     
  5. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Here's a link to something I heard just last night. Very impressive. http://www.BMpedal.com
     
  6. jg49

    jg49 Well-Known Member

    Can I assume Dave you would recommend the "BAD DOG" pedal?
     
  7. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    Sweet, thanks for the info guys. I just got back from spending three hours at Guitar Center haha. I ended up buying the BOSS DS-1. I couldn't resist, it had decent tone but it was only 39.99, I mean come on. Unfortunately I wasn't able to try out any tube screamers because they didn't have any set up, and I already had the guys pull some strings for me so I didn't want to push my luck haha. But I know TS's are good quality effects, so maybe sometime in the future. One thing I don't like about the DS-1 is that the distortion isn't really all that tweakable, but anyhow it was good enough for Kurt Cobain so it's good enough for me 8)
     
  8. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Well, I cant directly. LOL... Great name...should I sue? I used the Hot Wired pedal last night and was very very impressed with it.

    This pedal builder has the low-end down to a tee. The tight lows are what are missing in ALL manufactured pedals and some boutique ones. These have great low frequency response which is what would be the answer to a lot of questions relating to this sort of saturated drive that you hear so much of lately. The guitars have a lot of lowend to them but still retain the clarity that you simply cant get without manipulations of some sort. I know that the heavily saturated amps are supposed to do this, but even Tripe-Recs I've experienced havent been as firm in the lows as you'd like to have to record with. These pedals seem to fill the task nicely. And even though they have some pricy numbers, this a LOT cheaper than trying to find that perfect tube amp that'll do these sounds.

    Besides...Brent Mason is one of my guitar heros.
     
  9. soapfloats

    soapfloats Well-Known Member

    That's funny GF - I was going to suggest that very pedal.
    But having read your discussion w/ gabriel on the tube screamers, declined to post it - figured it would be too budget for ya. Go figure.

    I've read reviews that claim it is relatively comparable to the TS.
    Haven't had a chance to compare them, but for $40, at the least you've got a good alternative if you decide to get another distortion pedal.

    I've had guitarists come in and use it and be happy w/ the results.
     
  10. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    I just can't get anything to work. It must just be my amp, no matter what settings or pedals I use I always get muddy bass and high frequency garble. Nothing sounds good no matter what I do. It's very frustrating for a guitarist to not be able to get a good guitar sound v_v
     
  11. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I missed it but what amp are you using?
     
  12. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    It's a Marshall AVT 50. I've considered a bad tube, I've considered a blown speaker...idk just nothing sounds good.
     
  13. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    You mean the ECC83 in the preamp? I question whether that would be it. Do you have the bass cranked on that thing? Have you tried propping the amp on a chair? Do you have it in a corner? Sorry. Taking stabs in the dark here.

    It is a solid state amp aimed at budget minded individuals so I wouldn't expect too much from it.
     
  14. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    Bass isn't cranked, got it propped on a foldaway snack table, and it's not in the corner, actually I have it positioned in the mathematical "sweet spot" of the room. Given the situation, it must be a bad amp. Between 3-4 threads I've talked about bad tone and even with all the help I've gotten it still hasn't affected much other than technique. Sheesh, they say it's not what you have it's what you do but...I guess catchy sayings only go so far.
     
  15. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Bad gear can ruin it for anyone. Certainly a good player will sound good no matter what he plays with/through but that doesn't mean the sound quality will be good.
     
  16. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    Too bad I didn't get to try the Fender Blues Jr today. That one looked promising for me. I've been after the tube tone for years but couldn't justify dropping the dough. 600 actually isn't that much for an all tube amp, and if it sounds the way I want it to then all the better.

    On a sidenote, don't flame me for thinking wattage is everything cause I don't, but is that 15 watt FBJ loud? I played on the VOX 30 and even though it's only 20 watts less than my amp, it's only about 1/8 the volume, so there's obviously other things that go into loudness than RMS wattage.
     
  17. soapfloats

    soapfloats Well-Known Member

    Mic placement.
    Repeat 10x.

    Then look at your amp. Specifically volume, gain, and eq settings.

    I've recorded Fender Deluxe, Blues Jr, Musicman, Ampeg, B*er, etc. And some weird no-name brands.

    Anytime the guitarist was happy w/ his amp sound, I was able to produce a sound that made him happy, primarily through mic placement and mic choice.
    This is not to say the the guitar sound was the BEST for that possible scenario. But it met the compromise of satisfying me (engineer) and him (guitarist).
    Since you're both engineer and guitarist, if you can get a sound out of the amp that you're happy with, it's all about mic placement/choice and maybe some adjustments on the amp itself.

    Finally, keep in mind the (signal) chain of a good recording:
    Player > Instrument > Mic > Cable > Pre > and so on...

    I don't claim to have a great deal of experience. But my limited experience has been greatly varied, and these principles and the situations that demonstrate them has allowed me to walk away satisfied w/ every project I've worked on.
     
  18. jg49

    jg49 Well-Known Member

    I played through a friends Blues Jr and really liked the sound. A few weeks later I played through one at a music store and was not so impressed. Came to find out his had been hot rodded, I guess there is a simple mod that is easy to find on the net that improves the tone greatly. Is it loud? THat is so subjective, it is enough amp to play small clubs, it is more than enough for stage dynamics ( that is why we have PA systems) but let it be known we are not kids anymore and none of us uses half stacks. The Marshall model you are using I have never liked, but then there are only a few Marshalls I have really liked all older, all tube models, half stacks, heavy as hell and I for one am unwilling to haul this kind of gear around. I do not play heavily distorted music so I might not be much of a source here. Find any amp you like the tone of and amplify that if you need more volume, then you will have something easy to record, easy to move, easier on the wallet.
    Volume percieved to wattage has a lot to do with speakers esp. impedance, the higher impedance speakers will usually be chosen by manufacturers for better tone but can cut the volume by 1/2, 1/4 or more.
     
  19. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    I have to say though, that after playing with the DS-1 for a little bit I am pretty impressed. It's pretty transparent, good tone and doesn't sound too processed. Much better than other BOSS pedals for much more. I bought the SD-1, the overdrive version, shortly after starting out a few years back. IMO it sounded like crap for the money I paid for it. The best tone I got out of it was when I plugged it into my VooDoo Labs power supply and activated the voltage changer. When running at 3 or 4 volts instead of the usual 9, I got a nice analog sounding "sag", but the stock sound IMO is too fake sounding to use as an effect, maybe as a line boost for solos.

    [/rant]
     
  20. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    When a persons ear and their playing mature to a certain point is when the 'expensive' equipment becomes the base stuff to have.

    Its really that simple.

    There are artifacts in those cheap pedals that will eventually show themselves. Once you learn what they are you will continue in the 'Quest For Tone'. Things like true bypass will start to have meaning. The blurring of the sound at the edges will drive you nuts and theres nothing you can do about it. It is an aspect of cheap design, cheap components and cheap assembly labor.

    Buying a pedal that is a mass-produced big name isnt going to get you quality everytime. In fact it seldom does.

    These are words you need to embrace. Keeley. Fulltone. Wampler. Prescription Electronics. Theres a lot of others. Yes, they are more than 30 bucks. All of em. BUT. if you pay 30 dollars every few months and still dont have what you want, eventually you will have surpassed the price of one great pedal.

    Which is cheaper?

    How much is your sound worth to you?

    You are NEVER going to get the sound you want out of that amp. I dont care what the badge on it says. That Marshall is a dog. And to ask it to do what you describe you want from it is going to continue to be an exercise in futility on your part.

    I'm not sure the Blues Jr is what you want either. I've owned one for around seven years. Back before they farmed them out for assembly elsewhere. It sounds great. Its loud as hell to a point...It lacks in so many ways for some things, for others its perfect.

    You are NOT going to get that saturated big tight bottom end sound from one. I dont care what pedal you use or what recording methods you use, aint gonna happen. Its not designed to do that. You want warm,crisp, bluesy sounds? Blues Jr.

    OR. If you want a clean platform for a great pedal then you might get what you want from one. Just dont expect the amp to deliver that sound.

    Its box is a little too small to really get that tight lowend thump.

    They dont like high-gain humbuckers much either.

    I appreciate your srtuggle. We've all been there. My take is you're not going to find what you need at GitarMart either.

    Its time you get on the net and start looking a REAL gear and move up.
     

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