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Does this make any sense?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by therecordingart, Jan 8, 2006.

  1. therecordingart

    therecordingart Well-Known Member

    I built a compressor and it has balanced trs in and balanced trs outs. The insert points on my board are ts. When I have the cable pushed into the insert all of the way it inverts the phase 180 degrees. When I have the cable half way it is fine.

    WTF?!?!?

    How do I fix this?
     
  2. stickers

    stickers Active Member

    are you using ts or trs on the cable?
    I'm not sure but i think if you use ts, it should be ok...
     
  3. Reggie

    Reggie Well-Known Member

    Your inserts are one of those combo jack thingies (T=send, R=return, S=ground) where you need a splitter-like cable. Like this: http://www.zzounds.com/item--HOSSTP80


    RTFM?!?!? :lol: Sorry, that is so harsh; but so fun to type.
     
  4. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    Your question is simple and so is this answer. Take your balanced cables/connectors on your compressor and reverse tip and ring on both inputs and outputs. Now you have reversed phase on your connectors and you should be in phase when you plug into your inserts. Do you have 2 insert jacks per channel? Or is it a single insert Jack? That would certainly change everything. In that event, you will need to get that aforementioned adapter cord, which will be a Y cord, with a stereo 1/4" plug and 2 1/4" jacks, mono type. You may then also need an adapter so that you can unbalance the inputs and outputs from your compressor/limiter to feed your inserts. It's not a real big deal but certainly confounding isn't it?? Conversely, you could create your own patch cord and include a 1:1 transformer at each end of the Y, so that your compressor/limiter to feed the transformer balanced in the other side of the transformer would feed the insert unbalanced.

    So what kind of design did you use for your compressor/limiter? VCA, FET, optical or variable mu tube?? I'd love to know? Was it a kit or from scratch?

    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  5. therecordingart

    therecordingart Well-Known Member

    The compressor is an SSL clone.

    There are single unbalanced inserts on my board. The cables I'm using are TRS. So just flip the Tip and Ring? Or just leave them plugged only half way?
     
  6. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    Well again by your description, your board appears to have the single connector so it is similar to " tip send, ring return, sleeve ground. So now onto your SSL clone compressor that offers balanced 1/4" inputs and outputs. You'll still need that previous suggestion of the Y cord and upon plugging in your SSL clone, if you find that you are still out of phase, you will need to unbalance the inputs and outputs on the SSL clone. Easily accomplished with a soldering iron and/or another simple adapter. Since your compressor limiter may actually be flipping phase, internally? Your adapter that you will need to make will be a quarter-inch stereo plug and at the stereo balance 1/4" output, you will need to flip the tip and ring at the Jack's side of your adapter, tying tip to sleeveand making your ring, high. Only partially plugging in your connectors is not the answer and you lose half of the balanced circuit along with an aberration in frequency response.

    To recap:
    the 2, 1/4" jacks at the end of the Y cable must be wired with stereo connectors that you will be reversing tip and ring, within the Y jacks, on both. Then when you plug your 1/4" stereo plug into your insert along with your compressor limiter you should be in phase and kosher! Voila! Now wasn't that simple?

    Remy Ann David
     
  7. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    Well again by your description, your board appears to have the single connector so it is similar to " tip send, ring return, sleeve ground. So now onto your SSL clone compressor that offers balanced 1/4" inputs and outputs. You'll still need that previous suggestion of the Y cord and upon plugging in your SSL clone, if you find that you are still out of phase, you will need to unbalance the inputs and outputs on the SSL clone. Easily accomplished with a soldering iron and/or another simple adapter. Since your compressor limiter may actually be flipping phase, internally? Your adapter that you will need to make will be a quarter-inch stereo plug and at the stereo balance 1/4" output, you will need to flip the tip and ring at the Jack's side of your adapter, tying tip to sleeveand making your ring, high. Only partially plugging in your connectors is not the answer and you lose half of the balanced circuit along with an aberration in frequency response.

    To recap:
    the 2, 1/4" jacks at the end of the Y cable must be wired with stereo connectors that you will be reversing tip and ring, within the Y jacks, on both. Then when you plug your 1/4" stereo plug into your insert along with your compressor limiter you should be in phase and kosher! Voila! Now wasn't that simple?

    Remy Ann David
     
  8. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Art
    head for the Rane tech note and have a read up about interconnectivity in general

    When connecting things to your desk you may need to employ a few techniques depending on the topology of your equipment ... including the DIY stuff.


    Your SSL clone ... call it the G-SSL just so people know it's the 5532 opamp output
    Remy may not know which project you are on.
     

  9. Just an open question...should one really be building one's own gear if one doesn't quite grasp how an insert point works? I'm thinking of this as a "walk/run" metaphor.


    ~S
     
  10. Reggie

    Reggie Well-Known Member



    Nah, details details. Some extremely nice folks have made it so easy now-a-days to build these kinds of things yourself, so why not? The other little details will come to light along the way. At least that has been my experience.
     

  11. Which would be why I feel the term "recording engineer" no longer applies to most folks with access to the red button.

    ~S
     
  12. Reggie

    Reggie Well-Known Member

    Too true, too true. I'm a mic-pointer/knob-twister/computer geek/soldermonkey at best. But hey, it's a new era. You don't still get your milk brought to your front door by a milkman, do you? :wink:
     
  13. If I thought I could trust the neighborhood kids not to piss in it I probably would.


    ~S
     
  14. stickers

    stickers Active Member

    Im not sure but from what i've learned from watching professional wrestling, the best thing to do to prevent Shotgun from being an asshole all the time is to power-slam him into the spanish announcers table.
     
  15. Spy

    Spy Guest

    Am I the only person (with the possible exception of himself) who doesn't think TRS is an arsehole?
     
  16. Now THAT is good comedy.


    Spy: You may be the only one. I'm fairly sure I'm an asshole too. :p :lol:
     

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