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Doubling guitar

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by tempest1226, Oct 1, 2006.

  1. tempest1226

    tempest1226 Guest

    Hey everyone. Im just getting into recording and i want to get the best out of what i have. obviously. lol. haha. I have a digi002 with an apple imac, a presonus pre with sm57's and im using dual recs and mesa cabs. Im into heavy rock with thick heavy sounding guitars. But i feel like im not getting the clarity as well as stereo spread that i want. I know i just have a 100.00 presonus pre. But i feel like i could do better. I notice that people talk about doubling guitars as in panning one left and re recording a duplicate and panning it right. But does that count as two guitar tracks or just one. In other words if i have two guitars each playing something. WOuld there be 4 tracks, two in which are just duplicates panned to the opposite side, or would there be just two tracks. One guitarist doing one to left, and the other guitarist doing the second to the right. Because that is what i am doing now. But i cant tell if people actually mean, for each guitar track. do a duplicate which would make 4 total tracks with just two guitars. I hope that makes any sense at all. haha. thanks for any help. Im sure ill have plenty of questions coming up cause im really getting into this and im amazed at the knowledge i have been reading on this forum. Thanks for any help. Ron
     
  2. Nirvalica

    Nirvalica Guest

    you probably have better preamps on the 002 than the presonus preamp.

    and for two guitars, have one record one track on one side, then the other record on the other side. When people record two takes of a guitar part and pan them, its the same as two guitarists recording one track each (usually they double if its a band with one guitarist). So with two guitarists, you want two tracks total. Of course you could do more, but I wouldn't think you'd need more.
     
  3. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    It's not unusual to record more than 2 takes, specially with riffs. The trick is to play accurate as possible to make takes tight („perfectly“ aligned) and that means better impact and bigger sound. With inaccurate takes you will get the mud. Use less drive/gain than usual – better definition.

    For more than 2 takes you can change guitar, amp, amp settings, mic, alternate finger positions on the neck (if possible) – all sounds different. With 4 takes (each player 2 ) you can pan at 100 and 75 or 50 %. With 8 - the real wall.

    Take day or two to play with. :cool: Remember, accuracy means – everything !


    regards
     
  4. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    Another added "trick" is to record as normal... e.g.

    record track 1 - pan to 10 o'clock
    record track 2 - pan to 3 o'clock

    Then take a short verb with a short pre-delay or a straight delay on each track and pan it wide to the opposite side... e.g.

    delay track 2 - pan to 8-9 o'clock
    delay track 1 - pan to 3-4 o'clock

    The width and length of delay is dependant on the material and isn't always appropriate, but when it works, it WORKS!

    Start with something in the 20-45 mS range and go from there. This can take some time, but if you've doubled accurately, it can add some real thick wall of power sound to your mix. Again, it isn't always the right thing, so don't expect it to work... If nothing else, just keep this in the ol' tool box to try.

    X
     
  5. tempest1226

    tempest1226 Guest

    thank you very much everyone. I will try all these ideas.
     
  6. tempest1226

    tempest1226 Guest

    man i just tried it and i just hate the tone im getting. Its not like tones on here or is just i need a really nice preamp. I have no warmth at all. its just like blah in your face tone. i tried messing with the eq on the amp but itsjust the same. doy ouhave any suggestions on mic placement, volumes of recording, compression. The presonus preamp settings or if the digi002s in's sound better what should i do. lol. thanks once again.
     
  7. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    Have you maybe a AKG d112 ? try combination with 57 and 112 on the same take (but different tracks).
     
  8. tempest1226

    tempest1226 Guest

    nahh i dont. but maybe i should. lol. thats like the second time ive heard about that mic this week. is there any other options i can try. i feel like maybe compression, cause i have the slightest idea of the best setup for compression and limiting. i am using plugin compression and limiting that came with protools.
     
  9. TVPostSound

    TVPostSound Guest

    Chord inversions on the second pass.

    If your guitar palyer cant do this, then he/she should learn.
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    OK, try half of what I posted...

    Track 1 gat...

    Mix to one side either 3 or 10 o'clock.

    Add an aux returned 35 ms delay panned to the mirrored opposite side.

    If just that alone sounds like a$$, then it's possibly either your recording technique or your channel eq... You mention that you don't like the "tone"... what part?

    Don't boost what you like, cut what you DON'T like. Lather rinse, repeat... pan to the opposite side.... any better?

    X
     
  11. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    go and check:

    http:// - Download and compare mp3. "Picture" worth a thousand words.

    http://www.recordingreview.com/articles/articles/121/1/Electric-Guitar-Recording--More-Than-One-Mic-On-A-Guitar-Amp/
    Do-More-Microphones-Make-Better-Guitar-Sounds.html


    http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/news.php?action=view_story&id=140

    ..... and of course ....

    http://www.royerlabs.com/democd.html

    hope that helps a bit
     
  12. You could always do a 'Bob Rock' like on Metallica's Black album and multitrack all the rhythm guitars 20 times each for that 'wall of sound' effect !
     
  13. tempest1226

    tempest1226 Guest

    thanks everyone. Im starting to get the sound i want but i still think maybe a nice pre like a avalon 737 would give me exactly what i want cause im stilling lacking the real warm evenly compressed sound that i want and that tends to be what most people i hear say nice preamps give you.
     
  14. SuprSpy79

    SuprSpy79 Active Member

    How exactlly are you micing the amp? That has A LOT to do with the type of sound you are getting from your amp.
     
  15. saemskin

    saemskin Active Member

    just curious, with all those takes and that much panning. Say 4 left and 4 right, wont the guitar sound "too big" and take up just too much space and make it that much harder to get it to sit well in the mix?
     
  16. TwinCristle

    TwinCristle Guest

    Have you thought about Tape. If it's warmth you're looking for then that's the best way to get it. You can record (capture) digitaly, and then put it on tape for the warmth.
     
  17. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    This is just personal preferrence but I think the best tones I've ever heard were single tracks of guitar. Just really good tone out of an amp
    (or amps or one amp mic'd in stereo) but definitely one guitar. If you can't get one guitar track to sound good on it's own, I think that is an issue in itself. Doubling it is just going to sound like two bad sounding guitar tracks.

    Incidentally, I've heard a lot of people complain about recording Dual Rectifiers. That, it's difficult to get a good recorded tone out of them. Of course this is just opinion.

    At any rate have a listen to Elton John-Captain Fantastic and The Brown Dirt Cowboy. When the rhythm guitar comes in. It's just an amazingly creamy overdrive. Yeah it's not Metal distortion but you get my drift.
     
  18. JetJaguar

    JetJaguar Guest

    Dude, u cant slag off the wall of sound like that. Multi guitar tracks are the tits. Just listen to anything off the new machinehead album, anything mike oldfield has ever recorded and brian god damn may.

    speaking of which, a really wierd, time consuming trick- work out how to play guitar parts just on one string per track, i.e. normally u play a whole g chord but with this u play the e string on one track the a string on the next track and so on.
     
  19. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    I'm not slagging doubling tracks. I do it all the time. What I'm saying is that doubling a bad sounding guitar is just going to sound like two tracks of bad tone.

    The Mutt Lange thing with tracking each string is overkill as far as I'm concerned. Especially when you consider he was doing that with (analog?) tape at the time so we're talking three 24track reel to reels slaved to each other at least. It seems a little ridiculous. At any rate, the albums he did with Def Leopard did sound great. I still think it borders on O.C.D. control freakism.

    Off topic: did you get your username from Godzilla vs. Megalon?
     
  20. JetJaguar

    JetJaguar Guest

    Yes, yes I did. also the name of my band not to be confused with Uzbekistanien electro grindcore band Jet Jaguar KR-3 (check them out its hilarious.) Check out myspace.com/jetjaguar1 in about a months time once we've finished recording.

    It can be overkill but it gives the same flexibility of say the gibson digital guitar that u can create huge layers of varied tone as u can have different sounds on each string. I find this usefull for giving more appropriate EQ for almost each note. for basic sounds ure probably right and i never realised that Lange used it to.
     
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