Discussion in 'Recording' started by mpower, Jun 16, 2003.
Anyone care to comment on the pro's con's between SX and DP4 (specifically on a Mac).
You must be feeling ignored. I don't know any specifics about SX since I use Performer but I love Performer.
I don't know about SX but I am planning to buy SL later this year - although it is rumoured that Steinberg may release a version of Cubasis which will be able to run under OS X.
As a long time user of Cubase I can't recommend Steinberg products for the Mac.
SX has been out for nearly a year, and they just received a bug-fix today.
Traditionally it takes Steinberg 4-5 updates before you get the advertised product. I've moved on, like many other Mac users.
Take a look at the bug list.
- MacOS X: fixed problems with Projects names containing special german characters
- MacOS X: projects with QT movies failed to quit properly and required a force quit
- MacOS X: full Screen function caused problems
- True Tape on/off status wasn't saved with project file
- "Save project to new folder" stored the project with old name instead of the new one
- Record Arming & Monitoring on/off state of audio/MIDI tracks are now saved with the project file
- Monitoring state restores after reload
- When toggling between projects the audio engine sometimes stopped playing
- SX immediately quit when switching Stereo/Mono switch sometimes
- Fixed several condition, that could lead to an immediate exit and return to the desktop
- Activating system link with analog input as system link input could lead to crash
- Selecting "Non Buffered Read" in VST Multitrack/Expert Settings caused an unexpected error
- VST-Inputs windows: all available inputs can be reached now
- Multiple audio file import could cause Audio engine system error message
- Fixed opening .key files containing macros
- Fixed loading DSP-Factory Preset files
- Fixed problems with OggVorbis file export
- MacOS X: MP3 im- & export is now supported
- Click during Preroll works as expected now
- Precount didn't follow Tempo track
- The Marker Track Inspector remembers column sorting now
- Adding a marker when the marker track is in a folder could freeze Cubase
- Tempo track was set inactive on opening a Reason project
- Certain time signatures could freeze Cubase.
- Cycling between locators could cause MIDI and Audio to drift
- Fixed problems with MIDI clock slow down during playback
- Fixed a problem with locating cursor
- Scrubbing via Houston during playback is possible now
- Mackie HUI remote map generated MIDI out
- "Solo" behavior improved
- "Saving all mixer settings" did not save Master and Send FX
- In the Track Mixer "copy/paste" didn't work for MIDI Channels
- Fixed a possible crash while copying/pasting channel settings
- Fixed a Bug where clicking "+" button to show automation on a track in non-active project could lead to freeze
- Fixed problems with VST Instruments and high latencies
- On Audio Exports with VST Instruments the first note isn't missing anymore
- VSI to Groups routing causes no more delay
- VSTi´s MIDI Outputs for track input are available again
- VST instruments showed up in theplug-insmenu list
- Fixed right-click menu on Audio Events, so allplug-insshow up
- UAD-1: plugin-knobs were not shown in the plugin GUI
- Fixed a possible crash with discarded, but still referencedplug-ins
- Double Delay, Flanger, ModDelay, Phaser and Symphonic: no more problems changing the delay time
- MIDI-plugin: Arpache SX played unreliably
- MIDI-plugin: "Note 2 CC"-Plugin caused lost of VSTinstruments Audio-output
- Fixed a possible crash when using speaker tool on REX-files in the Audio Part editor
- Hiding/unhiding the level scale bar in the Sample Editor could lead to crash
- MacOS X: fixed a possible crash on Pitch-shift Envelope preview
- Pitch Shift Envelope had no function with unchecked Time Correction
- MacOS X: MPEX timestretch is now available
- Fixed a problem with Spectrum Analyzer, Statistics, Detect Silence performed much to often
- Loading presets in the Crossfade dialog works now
- Switching resolution of audio recording produced white noise signal
- First recording after <empty trash> in Pool was corrupt
- Audio CD Import could freeze Cubase
- MacOS X: Imported REX files were converted to common audio files instead of slices
- Reset on Stop/All Notes Off didn´t worked for held sustain pedals
- MIDI Functions - Restrict Polyphony : MIDI notes vanishes by "Cancel"
- Pedals to Note Length was always greyed out
- Using Groove Quantize could cause Cubase SX to crash
- Position of recorded MIDI Part didn´t start at left locator
- It wasn't possible to draw controller ramps longer than 18 bars
- Moving a selected range didn´t work if "Delete Overlaps" was set to "on"
- Copying MIDI part between projects now works as expected
- Duplicating a shared part created a real copy of the part
- Paste Time didn't shift parts to right when parts in a folder are selected
- Step Input: right arrow stops producing rests at right hand side of screen
- Fixed a Notes graphic problem in the Key Editor
- Fixed a possible crash after using pencil tool in List Editor on SMF events
- Drum Editor: Drum Solo didn't follow instruments selection correctly
- Score: Align elements was greyed out when lyrics were selected
- Score: layout list: tracks were in wrong order
:roll: :d: :td:
DP was updated this week, fixed the problem with driverless USB audio.
SX has the same problem with USB audio, the 1.0.6 update did not address the issue. :roll: :roll:
I gotta second G-Dub on this... I gave up on Cubase about six months ago after years of dealing with bugs, the abscence of features I paid for and complete lack of help from Steinberg. Last year I started all my projects on VST/32 5.1, just 'cause I love the feel of it, but without exception they all ended in PTLE. Cubase just wasn't reliable enough. Actually, it wasn't reliable at all!
What sucks is that Cubase would be the best choice in terms of both features and ease of use, if it actually did what it's supposed to, instead of feeling like a friggin' beta. Add to that the fact that Steinberg seems to not care at all about the Mac and the choice is clear.
BTW, notice that the update G-Dub talks about is a maintenance update, not a features upgrade. And it comes about a year late... Meanwhile the Windoze crowd have gotten I don't know how many fixes and crap.
DP doesn't have some of the nice features that SX is supposed to have, but it's 99.9% rock solid, compared to maybe 50 or 60% with SX.
I use DP 4 on OS X. It works fine for my needs, though I'm a newbie.
The switch from OS 9 has introduced some temporary glitches, and the support for Audio Units plugins hasn't come yet (forthcoming update). However, MOTU is pretty diligent about fixing things, and, despite the OS-switching hiccup, DP has consistently kicked the pants off Cubase and Logic for ease of use, reliability and sound quality.
I researched the other two products before I bought DP. The Cubase users forum made the product look like a nightmare. Logic seems solid, but the interface is butt-ugly and cryptic.
>Logic seems solid, but the interface is butt-ugly and cryptic.<
LMAO! I thought the same thing when I saw it but I've never heard anyone else ever say that.
a dear friend has renamed it "ilogic"
Sioux, buddy, you need to get out more!
Seriously though, most everybody I've talked to feels this way. Even Logic users will tell you about the "steep learning curve" or some other politically correct way of referring to the fact that Logic's interface might as well be in Swahilli.
>Sioux, buddy, you need to get out more!
Seriously though, most everybody I've talked to feels this way. Even Logic users will tell you about the "steep learning curve" or some other politically correct way of referring to the fact that Logic's interface might as well be in Swahilli.<
LMAO. I'm a buddette not a buddy.
You're definitely right. I need to get out more. No argurment there!!
I've actually only seen Logic once at a friend's studio - a devotee. Needless to say, everything I heard was all good. Actually I didn't have any problems getting around in it on my first try, although I didn't go too deep into it...created a short midi piece and moved some sectional boxes around. Still, I'm around people all the time on another forum that use Logic and I've never heard that it was a difficult interface to learn. Regardless, that interface is butt ugly!
I'm fairly new to Logic, it has an orderly interface. DP's interface took me a little while to get use to because of the nonstandard navigation. Just had to read the manual.
I didn't have a lot of trouble with Logic's enviornment.
Used one of the demo tunes enviornment as a starting point, and configured it for my hardware synths.
After the enviornment, Logic is no harder/easier than the other DAWs.
I actually learned Pro Tools first, then moved into DP which was similar in many ways. After that it was easy to move into Logic. I agree, they are all essentially the same. I actually wish I owned Logic too. I think there are probably some MIDI things it can do better than DP, like moving those little boxes around. That was handy. Still, I just want to create music and I love the MIDI part so much that I don't really care which one I use! The only reason I moved from Pro Tools to DP is that the person who was helping me set everything up told me I had to have DP and that it was MUCH better than PT. I do really like DP though and everything MOTU.
Sioux, Always had the impression you were a buddette.
Helped a friend setup DP4, he had all MOTU hardware, it was painless with DP's integrated MOTU hardware support.
Seattle Pete, welcome aboard. :c:
Steinberg loves to move on to new stuff before they work the kinks out of old stuff -- there's no question about that.
But in all fairness to their Mac OSX version of Cubase SX, that voluminous bug list is the combination list for both Windows AND Mac OSX. (A case in point is the UAD-1 fix -- Mackie/UA still haven't released drivers for that card in OSX. You can't fix a bug where there ain't no card!)
Also, the entire list is published in the Mac AND PC update download areas.
There is also no question that SX for OSX is quirky, if not downright recalcitrant. But again -- in fairness to Steinberg -- I'd be hooting even louder if they hadn't given it to me to play with.
I think that might be the key: SX is still more of a toy than a tool. But it's elegant and fun to play with -- as long as your paycheck isn't riding on it.....
I still haven't tried DP4 but I hear there are many bugs too, CPU spikes and things like that...
the thing with Logic is that now that apple owns them they have an edge over the others and they update regularly unlike MOTU
Oh, that's great news. Maybe MOTU will keep on their toes.
I agree with you Robert, as long as it's not your primary app, it's probably OK.
Their update fiascos, weren't an issue until DeckII(revived by Bias), and SVP died.
That's when I invested in DP3 & and Logic Audio5.
After owning Cubase since version 3.x, I perceive a decline in their quality control, on both platforms. The PC version was released months before the Mac version, I really don't understand why they choose to include the known PC bugs in the Mac version, when they had the opportunity to clean them up.
It's like they never tested, before they released it. I think they have to many products for the size of the staff they have.
SX/SL is less problematic for the new user, than it is for the longtime Cubase user.
Imagine the noise if Pro Tools, DP, and Logic users could not open their previous sessions, in the updated product!
For Cubase/SX users it's the standard operating proceedure. Every major upgrade from version 3, to SX, required you to remix your older sessions to use the new product.
Don't get Cubase & SX confused they are different apps, with different feature sets, and workflow.
Robert you are probably right about the TOY part.
I wouldn't depend on it for business, in it's present form.
Cubase5 is a solid app in OS9, but it took several updates to get there.
MOTU was slow getting to OS X, but they have been updating regularly -- DP 4.0 in April, 4.01 in June, and 4.1 is coming August 8.
I'm willing to overlook the OS X hiccup because DP has a long track record as an outstanding, award-winning product. Over the long haul, I expect that to continue.
In the end I think the choice between Logic and DP should come down to workflow:
Logic is very modular and object-oriented, making it great for loop-based music, electronica, etc.
DP is great for more linear, traditional compositions. Its interface is basically similar to Pro Tools (though more elegant IMHO) with a mixer and effects that look like their analog counterparts. DP also rocks for film scoring and surround sound.
Both are solid programs. It just depends what you want to do.
I'm glad someone said that. While I feel sympathy for OSX users having trouble with SX, I have to say that VST Score 5.0 on my G4 running OS9.1 does everything this rookie wants it do and is, above all, dependable.
There's a certain Zen in driving a Chevrolet instead of a Lexus!
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