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DSP Card or an outboard ?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Hypothesis, Feb 16, 2003.

  1. Hypothesis

    Hypothesis Guest


    I'm mainly interested in a professional-sounding Reverb plug-in, and have heard a lot of nice things about the TC Powercore, so I wanted to check your opinion... Is it comparable to PCM91 Reverbs and if not, how "good" is it... (those of you who tried both...). How is Powercore's Reverb compared to Waves RVerb or TrueVerb (since I use those)... I've worked with Lexicon 480L, and those Reverbs are far away from any plug-in I've ever tried... Also which card is generally a better buy UAD-1 or Powercore (or some other solution maybe ?) ? Can UAD's compressors compete with outboard units like UREI, DBX or at least JOEMEEK ? Thanx, and all the best !
  2. lorenzo gerace

    lorenzo gerace Active Member


    I've been thru a series of comparative tests lately, and I've come to these results:
    DSP cards and high end plug ins sound damn good, but no matter how close they get to the item they emulate they are not the real thing: I did a test with reverbs using a RealVerb from Kind Of Loud and it sounded nice, but then I hooked up an Eventide Eclipse and Holy.... that's just another world: the sound comes alive and it instantly sounds like a pro record ( ;) :p ); Of corse you have to pay higer bucks for that quality, but I think that even though I love plug ins (expecially Bomb Factory and Waves stuff) there's something in real dedicated hardware units that is still unreplaceable by DSP (at least for the moment).

    Lexicon and Eventide are currently my favorite and having worked with those for quite some time before switching to DSP i got to know their sound quite well. Whenever I can I try to mix DSP plugins and real hardware units when mixing: sometimes adding a simple hardware reverb (I often use a Lexicon MPX-1) adds a 3D quality to mixes, even better with a PCM-91 or an Eventide Eclipse or DSP 7000.

    Hope this helps

  3. Hypothesis

    Hypothesis Guest

    Thanx for the info,... I supposed that things are like that... I still think that the key is buying a few high-end things - like an ultimate A/D converter & preamp (Apogee or so,...) and an ultimate outboard reverb along with 2 ultimate pairs of monitors.... Most other things can more or less be emulated with Plugins... I guess I sould start saving for an Apogee AD8000 or Track Two and PCM91... :) I can highly recommend Mackiez ! :) any similar experiences ?
  4. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    I'll have to agree here...the DSP cards such as the UAD are sweet and have some really nice verbs but the hardware fx have more headroom due to the fact that the computer doesn't add anything to it. Also remember that the hardware is pretty much a software based reverb in a way just done on a logic chip. The basic differences is the AD and DA or just A/A converters on them. Depending on your audio card will help give you a more detailed sound.
    Apogee huh?! Hee hee!
    Opus :D
  5. lorenzo gerace

    lorenzo gerace Active Member

    Originally posted by Hypothesis:

    I'm seeing a lot of mackies being used around so I tried a pair but I found them too exaggerated at the extermes and holed in the midrange, quite fatiguing to my ears, maybe that's because I'm used to my Genelecs that I found to be rather linear and flat with no bumps in the response whatsoever. I'm looking for an used pair of NS-10 to be used as a comparative reference, but I know their behavior depends a lot on the power amp you hook them up with, there's several schools of thought on this subject.

  6. Hypothesis

    Hypothesis Guest

    Well, maybe we've gone a little bit to far talking about monitors in the computer related forum, but since we started it, I might as well put in a few more words... I've worked with almost every model of Genelecs from 1029 to 1037, (not used those XXXL models though.. :) ) and the only model I was pleased to work with is 1031 (which is about the same size as HR824). I generally find Genelec nearfields to be harsh in the highs and not as defined in the lows as the Mackies... I get the actual character and colour of the Bass instrument from the HR824's , not just a generic bass note as most of the other monitors tend to give you. Have you just tried the Mackies (in a store) or acutally worked with them for some time ? I had sessions more than 10 hours long, and still wasn't nearly as tired as I used to be working with 1030's for example... We use Genelecs 1030 at the "academy for film in Belgrade" for editing (and the main reason is the exaggerated Highs, since you can hear the cuts & mistakes better). But we never use them for mixing... I guess monitors are quite a subjective issue, but the fact that Dolby & THX removed Genelecs from their certificates might tell you something... I also worked with Dynaudio (BM6a & BM15a), and I think those are just GREAT nearfields... much more comfortable to work with than Genelecs... Don't get me wrong, I'm not some anti-Genelec freak... Genelec also makes some great speakers... But my experience tells me that there are some much better solutions for less money... And you were right about the NS10's ! You must get a decent amp if you want to squeeze the juice out of them ! :)

    All the BEST !
  7. lorenzo gerace

    lorenzo gerace Active Member


    You are right about monitors being a highly subjective matter: we both use high quality monitors and find the one we don't use fatiguing and harsh; I think it all comes down to the way one feels comfortable mixing on a pair of monitors and how the mixes (or work for that matter) translates to the real world and other systems; I recentely did all of the sound (production and post) for a TV movie and I did it all on Genelecs (apart for a pair of Tannoy consumer speakers used as a reference) and last monday they had the premiere at a theater here in town where they projected the movie on an actual full size screen (what an emotion :D ;) ) and full cinema P.A. : well I was happy enough to listen that my work actually translated OK to the cinema sound system reproducing the highs and the thudding booms I mixed in my studio just right. That's what matters to me.

    I used a pair of Mackies for a 10 hour session in a local studio, and the other engineer really pushed them up in volume, maybe that was the reason I found them fatiguing, but the highs were tearing my head off (funny, I use to mix brighter than usual on Genelecs, because I found my mixes to lack the hyper sparkle I hear in the studio when played outside, that's because consumer speakers don't have that frequency response IMO).

    In the end, as above the bottom line is how do you feel comfortable mixing on them and how your mixes sound like.


  8. Hypothesis

    Hypothesis Guest


    I totally agree... The only thing that counts is the product of your work... regardless of what you had used to make it !

    By the way, if anyone has anything to add about the original UAD1 vs TC Powercore matter, please do SO ! :) Thanks & Cheers ! ;)
  9. Big Harpe

    Big Harpe Guest

    Hi I'm new here.

    TC Powercore's Classicverb is a great sounding reverb, and not just for plugins either. It is the closest thing to a real hardware unit I've heard coming from a PC so far. I own both the UAD-1 and Powercore and the compressors rock on the UAD-1 and Classiverb is great on the Powercore. just my 2 cents.

    I AM
    Big Harpe
  10. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott Active Member

    Big Harpe! Good to see you made your way over to RO. And thanks for the cpr file.

    GP :p:
  11. Big Harpe

    Big Harpe Guest

    Thanks! I hope the cpr file worked for you. Did it retain the settings for the card?

    Good talking to you again.

    I AM

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