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Easy question - hopefully

Discussion in 'Recording' started by jhagertybhs, Nov 14, 2003.

  1. jhagertybhs

    jhagertybhs Guest

    If you enter a mixer through the line in jack on a board instead of the mic jack, do you bypass the preamp altogether or not?
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    yes .... :D
     
  3. falkon2

    falkon2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
  4. freaky

    freaky Guest

    Maybe I'm confused here. On my mixer, the line in goes through the pre(I thought... the gain knob does increase the signal...), the tape in does not. Are we saying that if you run the signal hot enough that the pre is effectively bypassed? Obviously, the pre can't be bypassed altogether in this case, just not used. Seems to me, that whether it's used or not, the pre will color the signal. Kurt, is this why you posted such a vague answer? I've been trying for a while now to find a way to "bypass" the pre's in my vs-880ex and found I don't like the analog in's no matter how I use them. Instead, I go around them and input digitally from adat. Maybe it's just my gear, (seck 18x8x2 mixer...) do other boards have a hard wired bypass feature with the line in? :confused:
     
  5. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    On many, if not most standard mixers, the XLR input goes to the mic pre amp circuit, but the line input which can be an XLR but is often a TS or TRS 1/4" jack, is connected after the mic pre circuit. Many mixers include a block diagram in the manual that illustrates signal flow. On many of the upper end mixers there is indeed a mic/line input switch. The main gain knob known as the trim is located usually at the top front of the mixer and is always connected to the mic pre but may or may not be connected to the line input.

    Products like the Roland all-in-one-box recorders/mixers or other digital mixers are not standard so they may work and interface differently.
     
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    AG states it correctly. I can't be any less vauge that "YES" :D he he he ...

    There is usually an extra stage of amplification when you go through the mic pre..

    This is probably going to be more confusing but I'll give it a try..

    On a typical channel block diagram for a mixer like a Mackie or similar, the block diagram would probably show; the XLR mic connector, a triangle (for the mic preamp stage) then a line in jack that breaks the connection when a plug is inserted, another triangle (for the line amp stage) then the attenuator pot.. so when you plug into the mic input it goes through a pre amp stage to get the signal up to line level, then a line amp stage to which the attenuator is connected to.. or something like that..but the simple answer is .... YES
     
  7. freaky

    freaky Guest

    Thanks guys! I pretty much figured I couldn't get around the pres in the 880, it doesn't even have xlr inputs either... I guess my mixer is a little odd though, I've got an xlr mic connector, and 1/4" line in that both route to the pre in addition to a 1/4" -10dBV tape in that goes after the pre. The insert point is post preamp as well. I was just a little confused because I thought this was pretty much a standard feature, Seck later went on to become Soundcraft so I figured this design would be pretty common. In the end, I guess the best answer to jhagertybhs original question would be "yes" and RTFM ;) ! Thanks, I understand it all now. I just KNEW there had to be more behind that answer, Kurt :w: .
     
  8. drbam

    drbam Guest

    Question: With a Mackie 8 bus, would there be any *sonic* advantage to routing the DAW analog outputs to the tape return inputs vs the line inputs of the console?

    Thanks,

    drbam
     
  9. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2001
    no
     
  10. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    There would probably be one less stage of gain using the tape returns.. one less amp, = cleaner, in "theory" ... probably not that much difference in a real world application. Having the tape returns routed to the Mackie tape inputs, does provide a bit of flexibility in use, as you can leave line sources like keyboards, plugged into the console and switch between line and tape sources on the console as needed.. saving on an extra row of connections, cables and patchbays in your jackfield. However you lose the ability to trim the tape returns..
     
  11. Mundox

    Mundox Guest

    No. Most mixers, including old Neves and today's Mackies accept their line in signal right at the first stage of amplification using pads/transformers to bring the level down.
    Actually in theory this is not correct. By using the tape returns on the Mackie you are still using a stage that's almost identical to the line input. Somebody correct me if I am wrong please. :D
    :c:
     

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