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Event Opal vs adding KRK Rockit 10-3

Discussion in 'Monitoring / Headphones' started by Makzimia, Aug 22, 2014.

  1. Makzimia

    Makzimia Active Member

    Hi gang,

    After the discussions I have been involved in, it occurred to me to ask this question. It's all very well and good to get myself the Dangerous Monitor ST, but, what about my existing speakers. As I mentioned in another thread, I do have 10 year old Mackie Hr824s. These were a step up from NS-10m Yamaha's and a pair of Alesis monitor ones running off some pre amp I can't even remember anymore. And they have served me overall, well.

    I am actually making a sound proof space now, and I am going to treat it as best I can acoustically also. This leads then to what my choice was going to be. I have also been using a JBL MSC1, very similar way of working as the Event software, except it writes the result into memory of the JBL and along with my IsoAcoustic stands has definitely made a HUGE difference in a much less capable room, still with SOME acoustic treatment, no soundproofing.

    Adding to the Mackies initially felt like a good way to go, the KRKs are not very expensive, have great reviews, good midfields for the price. Question is though, would I be better off nixing that idea. Should I retire, or at least stay with the Mackies as a second, and instead just get the Event Opals?. I am a HUGE fan of Peter Freedman and I do have a Rode Mic I got when the NT2 first came out.

    I do have budget constraints and things I have to get, the Opals push me over a little along with Chris (audiokid right?) convincing resoundingly to push the Dangerous envelope a little higher :-/. I just really don't want to waste ANY money this time around again, been doing well since the big spend a couple of years ago. Will the Opals really make me look at the Mackies like they lied to me a lot?.

    One last thing, like Chris, and I am sure many others, past 14k is a stretch for my poor worn out old ears.

    Thanks again gang,

    Tony
     
  2. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Opals are all I need. In fact, I want a second pair for my lake studio now. They are outstanding. I can mix on them for hours and never tire. They are so lush and accurate. I think they are ideal for those heading towards a mastering level. They aren't cheap but well worth it for me.
    I've never compared KRK to them so I can't help. Monitors are like shoes. One man love the fit, other man gets blisters.
     
  3. Makzimia

    Makzimia Active Member

    Thanks Chris, i did see you use the shoe analogy before :). I am just really skittish about spending my last thousands (for now) on something wrong for my future needs. They have very good reviews, both the Opals, obviously, and the KRK Rockits (very different price market). The Rockits of course are useful as mid-fields, which I don't currently have. I don't want to short change myself on the near-fields though. The choice of the Events is good price wise, better than the Focal Dual 6bes which were my other choice of higher end near-field.

    Cheers,

    Tony
     
  4. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Damn money...

    If your room isn't large enough for mid fields, Opals will get it done. But, if you already have your room and sound, what more do you need and what are your goals? You haven't told us much about your musical direction ( commercial or personal, tracking, mixing , mastering) other than I get you are definitely wanting to improve your sound. What are your weak points? Do you think you aren't hearing well enough or do you think better gear or processing will get you closer to your goal?
     
  5. Josh Conley

    Josh Conley Active Member

    would it make sense to make such an upgrade before some thought goes into layout and treatment of this room?
     
  6. Makzimia

    Makzimia Active Member

    I actually have a 500sq foot space that is going to be an open studio. I have a drum isolation setup, vocal isolation setup. The desk is going to be facing into the main area, instead of towards a wall. I do have room for midfields, even bought stands for them already LOL. I have worked a lot of my own material over the years. The only *paid* gigs I did, dumb luck, were Eric Heydock (ex hollies bassist) and his band, a local Punk band in Manchester UK (back in 2000) and lastly a solo songwriter in Australia in 2002. Since my arrival in the USA I have been pretty much the only one recording... not had a lot of luck. And not had a real space that didn't mean allowing people in my house. And wasn't really big enough.

    I really have a lot to learn still, and switching all over the place with not being happy first with a shared PC (bad), and then a Mac G5 and iLogica(l) 7.0 meant I lost my way. Basically I have fiddle faddled, done it so very well (I think) and so very badly that I almost gave up. Now that the stars seem to be aligning and I know enough to be dangerous, I want to finally get to work properly. Going to initially freebie to show I can actually record (always do better on others than myself) and go from there, I hope..

    My previous house had a reasonable listening spot as I said, after the JBL and IsoAcoustics came along. I want to get back to when I did the Tascam days, just with more control now. Go in with the right levels, come out with the right mix and sound I want.

    I'm sure I can say more.. lunch is calling, and I am trying to sell my motocycle at the same time to pay the studio bill LOL.

    Cheers!.
     
  7. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    nicely said. Glad to have added another good member to the community. :)

    I'd stay nearfields then, 500 sqft is too small for midfields. Opals are choice then, but I'm not saying you need them.

    Josh etc, it time for your fresh opinions as I'm about to cook our new member in yet another direction! hehe. Variety beyond me is looking timely.
     
  8. Makzimia

    Makzimia Active Member

    Josh,

    Hi!

    I think I did say, it's being soundproofed and treated thankfully this time?. We are using MLV in insulated walls and floor to do soundproofing. I am then doing Placement of acoustic pieces as I need. I do have an App and a hardware solution to check room response to waves. The room is a little odd in that it's got a kitchen area I am leaving in. I do have soundproof panels that are free standing to take care of that side of the room. More or less I have it figured out in that direction. Big chunk of my 20k I started with has gone into just the room. I'll get some pics up as I go I think.

    And Chris, don't worry. I am just having a busy time of it at the moment. Only bought this house 6 weeks ago, went on vacation overseas after a week and a half of being here. Now dealing with the rebuild of that apartment etc. :). It's all good. And thanks again to you, and everyone on here for their helpfulness and huge knowledge they are willing to share.

    Cheers,

    Tony
     
  9. Josh Conley

    Josh Conley Active Member

    can you guys talk more about those room analysis tools?
    do you think its helped?
    are they expensive?
    what's the software like? can u use any mic?
     
  10. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    The Opals come with software and a mic to analyze your room. Its really simple to use. You can buy it separately from Event.
    Basically you load the software in, put the mic at your sitting position (where your ears are) and analyze L/R then adjust your EQ's on each Speakers to produce a flat response.
     
  11. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

  12. Makzimia

    Makzimia Active Member

    Josh,

    Let's see, a little sidebar to the topic, but definitely a worthwhile topic. Room analysis is somewhat of a dark art I think. I have seen many people talk about it, but it's in use in a couple of ways. Hardware, and software solutions. I am not sure how the Event one works completely yet, I watched the part 1 of their video but got distracted before finishing (Similar to JBL but more sophisticated interface). I do know it allows configuring a lot more on the front panel.

    My personal experience so far is the JBL MSC1 $299.00. JBL came up with tech they build into a speaker set for one (LSR series). They give you a small mic and some software, you install, mic at listening position, hook up the MSC1 various ways to your mixer it does various frequencies from your speakers and in the end you save it in the MSC1. http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/msc1#.U_iRe_ldV8E This will take you to their page. I found it transparent (with my previous setup) and it does a job well.

    The other thing I currently have is auEQ ($2.99) which is an app for mobile devices. What it does is, you hook into your stereo/studio mixer, it plays whatever song you want to listen to. When the song plays, it listens where you are, should be your listening position for mixing, and creates a EQ image of low fequency response, it then can automatically, in the app, change itself to compensate for what is not flat. When it's done you now can hear what it should sound like on the same song. I would then take what it did, and use say a room EQ to compensate permanently.

    Another favourite, and personally I don't like the idea of a plugin doing it, is ARC2 from IK Multimedia $299.99. All these are in use by various people I have read. Also, something to note, although I am sure you know, separation of the speaker from say a desk is important, stops sympathetic vibrations with the surface.

    Hope that helps, I am not any kind of guru on it, it's just where I got to, and as I previously said, I heard the difference immediately. It's funny how removing lower frequency overload frees up other parts to be heard much more clearly. I am sure I knew it, but hadn't thought about it that much until I saw it in action.

    Cheers,

    Tony
     
  13. Josh Conley

    Josh Conley Active Member

    its all good info (y)
    one last question, tell me about the pudding please... those of you who have invested $ in room analysis tools

    was it worth it?
    what benefits are you seeing (hearing, lol)?
     
  14. Makzimia

    Makzimia Active Member

    Was it worth it?. Yes, for education alone. It does it's job though!. If I was to quantify the result, and keep in mind my room was FAR from ideal. I would say it suddenly helped me really make bass do it's work, tighten the drums more etc. I was in a 12 x 14 square room with 6 acoustic sound proof panels placed strategically. Chris's experience is much more valid and you saw his results, I am sure on the graph, after running the Event version. When you are no longer wading with mud being flung at you, it's easier to hear :).

    Graham Cochrane over at recording revolution who used the Arc2, and has a treated room even, got results better than he expected. Again, I'm not a fan of a plugin solution, just my opinion.
     
    Josh Conley likes this.
  15. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    I have
    1. Conex APEQ-2pro
    2. APEQ-2pro DIO
    that I've never used ( or know which of the two I prefer) with my current system because I need an amp for my Tannoys passive monitors . I'm looking for a good deal on a Bryston 3B in time, then I'll actually try it out for real. I've done the measurement process and its very impressive.
    These are a pretty cool design. Check out what its all about here:
    http://www.realsoundlab.com/


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjrfJk1svE8
     
  16. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    "....It's funny how removing lower frequency overload frees up other parts to be heard much more clearly. I am sure I knew it, but hadn't thought about it that much until I saw it in action."

    After treating my space with BB absorbers and bass traps, the first thing I noticed was that the imaging in my monitoring became so much more defined, clearly an improvement. I also found that I ended up using less dramatic frequency changes, as opposed to the far more dramatic changes I used to have to make to hear a difference before I treated the room.

    It's amazing how things change once you attenuate all those frequencies that bounce around and smear your audio.

    It became even better once I dumped Sonar and went with Samplitude.

    FWIW
     
  17. Makzimia

    Makzimia Active Member

    My point exactly Donny. The way I did was less than perfect, but using that tool, which basically does remove those frequencies for you, did just that. I was happy for $299.00, and no guess work. Now my current room project.. that's a whole new ball game. I use Logic Pro X BTW.

    I am not in use of Sonar now, not been for a while, it's good but I am more used to Logic, now, and find it a cleaner workflow, for me. Plus I well and truly prefer a Mac over PC. Other good part, as per Chris's suggestion, I have managed to wrangle my iMac back off the wife.. so I can use it along with a second copy of Logic Pro X without paying a second license, and no other DAW to learn fully in parallel.
     
  18. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    I've never used Logic, but yesterday I had a good friend come over to cut some guitar tracks for me, and as he was watching me work in Samplitude Pro X, he commented that it sounded and worked quite similar to Logic.
    Having never seriously used Logic myself - other than maybe a time or two at a client's home studio - I can't attest to this. What I can say - because I used both Sonar and PT for years - is that without any doubt at all, Samplitude is on a completely different level than either PT or Sonar...and to me, with my rig and workflow, sonically superior to both.

    My friend is a veteran musician and a very good novice engineer ( we came up together in the bad old days of consoles and tape ) and recently, he signed up at Cleveland State for a Pro Tools Certification class - only because a job that he recently got demands it - and he's really bummed out by having to do it. He told me yesterday "This is stupid! I don't even like Pro Tools, and now I have to sit through 3 months of classes to get a certification in a platform that I don't even like enough to use myself ? "

    Myself ?... I used to think that all DAW's pretty much sounded alike. And, for quite a while, I was as guilty as anyone of the mindset that processor plugs were the answer to all my mixing problems.

    However, after quite a bit of "apples to apples" testing between all three platforms, I found out that this was very much to the contrary. Samplitude simply sounds better than both, and the processor plugs that come resident with the Pro X Suite are all I need... everything is there, and they all sound great. What makes them sound so good is, I believe, because these processors were coded for Samplitude, as opposed to all the third party plug manufacturers, who are trying so hard to be "everything to all platforms", and I've come to the conclusion that this isn't really feasible, because all the popular DAW platforms out there are coded so differently themselves.

    I think the only way that their concept would truly work flawlessly, is to design plug collections for each individual platform... "Waves for Sonar", "T-Racks for Cubase", etc., and they're not gonna do that as long as all their plugs will work on all the platforms... and yeah, technically they do work... but it's how well they work - or don't - that tweaks my monkey.

    There are those who will call me nuts, who will remain believers that all production platforms sound and operate the same way. And that the answer to great mixing can only be found in an expensive collection of "boutique" plugs.... and that's okay. Let them continue to drink the Avid Kool-Aid. I know there's a difference, and that's all that counts. ;)

    FWIW

    :)

    d/
     
  19. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    I don't know about any of the rest of you? I really despise these self-correcting monitor speakers that are using active equalization. I am 100% totally against that. You either pick out a good pair of speakers that works well in your room? Or ya don't.

    I'm not saying that active equalization of any sort on speakers isn't necessary. I'm only saying that well-designed speakers, in a control room, of varying acoustic designs or non-designs, shouldn't have active equalization on them. Only for PA system speakers is this actually necessary. Because if you have to put active equalization on your speakers? It's a gimmick. Come on. A marketing ploy. It's BS. So that would mean older high quality monitors like Meyer HD-1's would be no good to use anymore because they don't have any active circuitry to automatically equalize themselves with. Or other manufacturers of high quality, compact, self powered monitors. These companies come up with this stuff like Detroit puts on new taillight designs and grills on cars to make them better than the previous year's model. Which is BS bunk. They're great for amateur however that think they're cool because they all automatically compensate for lousy room acoustics and listening conditions. Which is fake BS. Of course that's the way a lot of these manufacturers stay in business. They would rather give you gobbledygook BS then produce a better product. Which is the insincere way to better greed profits. Since it's all about marketing. And everyone seems to forget that here?

    Newer more improved better thingies can be the point of diminishing returns. Dammit, I would still rather use an old pair of JBL 4310/11 or 12's and a Crown DC 300 A version 2 than most anything else. They were good enough to have mixed Michael Jackson's Thriller on. Oh but they're not good enough in 2014, right? Bull! So why are you constantly wasting your money flipping from one monitor to another? If ya don't like the sound of what ya purchased? Why did you buy them in the first place? It's like marriage. On a bad day do you just get divorced and take another wife? No. You evaluate the situation and make changes to what you're doing not what you're listening to. Because it's up to you not your speakers.

    So how do you know when you have the right speakers in your room? When you listen to the top hits, by the top engineers that recorded and mixed their stuff with JBL 4311's. If those worked for recordings to go Platinum? Why can't you make good recordings? Answer? It ain't your speakers. It's you and only you.

    What I preach is technique. And mostly, only technique. That's the mark of a true professional. Everything else is like little kids that want more Lego pieces. Blue ones and yellow ones, gray ones and purple ones instead of just the old-fashioned red and white ones. And where it doesn't matter what color they are, they all fit together the same way. The only problem would be if they didn't fit together. People are so confused by marketing today. They can't get anything to fit together. We didn't have these millions of choices 40 years ago. We had two or three choices. And that was it. And that made hits. Because of the people that make the hits not the equipment.

    Is this a company's equipment forum or is this a recording forum? It's a recording forum. It says so right in the name. It's not Equipment.org it's Recording.org. It's about recording. For others it's about the equipment. And so if you can afford the best of the best equipment were cost is no object? Likely you can make a good sounding recording without ever really knowing what you're doing or how you're doing it? But if your equipment isn't the best in the world? You might have to work at it a little harder? And I know that work is a four letter word so... you decide.

    You take a pair of speakers. Virtually any speakers. And put some really great sounding recordings made by great engineers, great producers and great musical artists and listen to what it sounds like. Then take that same recording and put it to almost any other speakers. Will it sound bad? No it will not. The recording and mix integrity will still remain. You'll hear the technique. And you'll hear what the equipment is not delivering. But the quality still comes through on the cheapest crap speakers. Because it's the musicians and the engineer. That's what good engineers do. They make their mix sound good, coming out of anything. And that takes... well... some talent. Kind of like not letting your little brother take out your appendix for ya. But at least letting a veterinarian to it? When ya can't get to a people doctor to save your life. Or, just getting drunk up enough to do it yourself, before you die, lost on a tropical island in the middle of an ocean. Where your only neighbors have sticks and bones piercing their septums and are running around in loin cloths made from hemp. They might think that drinking their magic potion will cure all ills? And sometimes it might? If you can survive it long enough? Otherwise you are taken away by the spirit of the ground and they all have a party over ya.

    Luca Chaka Chaka Chaka Luca Luca Chaka Chaka. Drink this.
    Mx. Remy Ann David




    Wow... look at all the pretty colors... barf.
     
  20. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    I'm not convinced either but I've never heard these babies to know as much as you do about all this so I remain open minded. What was the last equalization tool you used like this?
    This technology ( the two boxes I have here) aren't a cheap product, they are a few thousand. I also don't think this is something to dismiss from past experience either. Everything is going digital.

    There are some serious monitor companies heading this direction. From my understanding, these will only excel your listening environment. I would still use my current (awesome) monitoring system and have this as a 3 monitoring option. Nearfields, Midfield and these. How could you ever go wrong ;)

    openyourmind.PNG
     
    Makzimia likes this.

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