1. Register NOW and become part of this fantastic knowledge base forum! This message will go away once you have registered.

Fed up. Do I stay or do I go?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Mork, Dec 10, 2005.

  1. Mork

    Mork Active Member

    Dec 10, 2005
    Home Page:
    I've gone from the old Atari days with C-Lab Notator all the way through to Logic 5.5 on the PC. Now I feel like I'm getting left behind and it's time to decide on my next move. Here's the dilemma. For starters I was pretty fed up with Apple who buy up Logic and tell us PC users to jump on board or get lost, but after much deliberation I accepted the crossgrade offer for the Mac XS key and then paid £99 for an upgrade to Logic Pro 6 only to feel shafted weeks later when they release Pro 7 and want yet another £200, a potential outlay of £300 when I hadn't even bought my Mac!

    Anyway, I never did pay to upgrade to Pro 7 and have spent the last two years using 5.5 and podering a move, but as I say I'm feeling stuck in a rut now with 5.5 on the PC and I think it's time I did something about it but I'm having a nightmare deciding what to do, yes it's that whole Mac/PC/Logic/Cubase thing yet again, the boring old subject that comes around and around and makes us all groan! but really I'm tearing my hair out now and the more I try and rationalise it all the more confused I get.

    Here are the choices:

    1) Stick with the PC, take Cubase up on their offer to buy SX for £300 and learn to use it and run Logic alongside untill all current songs are moved across, using the money saved on a Mac for plug in's soft synths, holidays etc, or:

    2) get a bank loan (joke!) Buy a Mac, upgrade to Pro 7, carry on working as normal then get really miffed when the Intel Mac comes out and they ask for £300 to upgrade the software! :)
  2. Calgary

    Calgary Active Member

    Nov 25, 2005
    I'd stick with PC personally. Cubase SX 3.0 is a really decent program and easy to learn. ASKvideo has some great Cubase video training CDs very cheap. Lock the door and spend a weekend immersed with them and you'll be rocking. :cool:
  3. took-the-red-pill

    took-the-red-pill Active Member

    Jan 10, 2005
    Near Clagary
    Home Page:
    Personally I'm a Mac man. This computer I'm typing on was made in 1994 and the OS and box are still rock solid(a little slow by today's standards). The only time I have problems is when I'm using...umm...anyone...anyone...yes you there in the back...?

    Errrrrr, Microsoft?

    Bingo! Anything by Microsoft, especially Internet Exploder.

    Now having said that, I went and turned to the dark side. This year I bought a PC(the fastest available) with Cubase to save some cash, and I'm trucking along and I see: "There has been a serious problem, we have to shut you down. Hope you've hit save every 10 seconds or it will suck to be you when you fire it back up."

    And then there is an invitation to send the error message to them via e-mail, but, I'm scared shitless to hook the thing up to the net because of virus issues corrupting the whole thing even worse than it is.

    No internet means I can't download anything, or upload anything from the box. So no Digitalfishphones or the like for me. I bought Virtual Bassist and had to take my computer to the store because I couldn't even download the access code.

    So if I had to do it all over again I'd look a lot further out into the future and ask myself some tough questions:

    Do I want to run the world's most stable OS, using the world's best and most copied interface? Or do I want to run the world's most 'common' OS, regardless of it's stability?

    Do I want to hook my computer to the internet to connect to the world, and sleep like a baby at night knowing I have immunity from viruses which could destroy all my hard work? Or do I want to spend my time being vigilant about making sure no viruses, worms, trojan horses, AIDS, the flu, or any other diseases come on board while I'm downloading a program, or upgrade?

    You probably know this, but Mac joined up with UNIX, argueably the most stable OS there is, even possibly more so than their own, and they put their killer interface on it. That's like putting a rocket engine in a Ferarri.

    Microsoft is too busy cashing your cheques, dominating the internet, and trying to figure out how to stay 'only' 10 steps behind the virus writers to give a rip whether your box is crashing with underwear changes. Kinda like Ford not really fixing the Pinto because it was cheaper to pay off the families of the dead

    If it were me, having driven both 'cars' around for a while, I'd suck it up, swallow my pride, eat the extra money, and do it right, and I'd have a picture of a fruit on the side of my screen.

    Remember: Buy the best and only cry once!

    End of rant.

    I shall await the oncoming backlash from the Windoze proponents. I expect my obvious stupidity in expressing this opinion to be thoroughly exposed

  4. McCheese

    McCheese Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2005
    Logic 7 is a beautiful program that run wonderfully on Mac. Make the jump, I doubt you'll regret it.
  5. baslotto

    baslotto Active Member

    Jul 28, 2005
    Get a Mac.

  6. iznogood

    iznogood Guest

    i cannot second the move to mac enough.....

    you'll be a happier person.... making more music than you ever did.... instead of using your precious time scanning for spyware...

    and the bad feeling about the upgrade prices will go away when you see what you get for your money.....

    and EVERY piece of software is about the same ragarding upgrades anyway.....

    and the abilty to stack computers to get more power works second to none......

    a nice little quad G5 will run circles around your old pc.....
  7. tamasdragon

    tamasdragon Guest

    Both platforms can be rock solid, if someone has enough knowledge to operate it. At another forum many pro people figured out that bitching about microsoft 99 percent comes from the lack of knowledge, and misuse of product. Regardless of the platform, you can achieve the same result. None of it more or less stable than the other. I work on both platforms, have no problem with it.
    Regards Tamas Dragon
  8. iznogood

    iznogood Guest

    "99 percent comes from the lack of knowledge, and misuse of product."

    that's the case in 99% of all cases regarding any computer or general equipment trouble.....

    the problem here is only that you need more knowhow to run a pc..... and 99% of musicians are exactly not computer geeks
  9. alimoniack

    alimoniack Guest

    I use multiple pc's, different one for each job. Never had any error messages while running audio or virus issues, but then I was reared on PC's in a hands-inside-the-box kinda way...I'm very keen to have a mac sitting in a corner somewhere just in case though, they are solid and Gates can't have it all his own way.

    I think a computer is a computer, some are more stable, some are more flexible....I agree it's probably easier to get it wrong/end up doing hasty backups with PC at the end of the day. I like living a little dangerously.
  10. took-the-red-pill

    took-the-red-pill Active Member

    Jan 10, 2005
    Near Clagary
    Home Page:
    Ahhh, so I'm hearing that one has to have a certain amount of specialized knowledge to keep an XP system running? I agree. That is what I have found too. But wait...I don't want to be a frigging computer geek!

    "Whoops :D sorry Mr client, I have to shut down and restart everything, oh and that last take was lost. Your time isn't valuable is it?"

    I want to record. I want to connect. I want to expore music and other creative endeavours. I want to use my computer for years. I don't want to fix. I don't want to have to send error messages. I don't want to update my virus ware.

    And that is the basic difference in mentality we have. Windoze creators figure everybody should not only know how, but have the time to waste fixing their computer, updating virus software daily, and accepting crashes as a part of life. I have never had to worry about any of these issues on my Mac and it's been going strong for 11 years now. And come to think of it, since 1988 I've never had a Mac crap out on me. only get too outdated and slow to be functional. I had also NEVER in my life experienced a crash until I started using Microsoft products. I didnt' even know what they were.

    And the arguement against getting a Mac? It's always the old "it's more money." That's compelling. 5 years from now the sting of the price tag will be a distant memory, but the box will still be rocking. People complain about the Mac price, but almost never stability, longevity, OS or interface.

    I might sound mad at you, and I apologise for that. I'm really mad at me, for being sucked in. What could I have possibly been thinking?????

    To the original poster:

    Hmmmmmmmmmm Ferrari or Pinto.... think .... think .... think
  11. Calgary

    Calgary Active Member

    Nov 25, 2005
    Enough fear mongering. Here's the reality of life on a PC as told by someone who uses one, me.

    1. I have not lost a single session. Ever. Period. My PC never crashes.
    2. The best DAWs are not online. Zero virii, zero problem. In any business "best practice" is to keep critical data offline regardless of platform.
    3. There are tons of great, inexpensive firewalls out there. Easy to setup, a cheap router can easily shut out any type of traffic.
    4. There are tons of great anti-virus programs around which are cheap, effective, and completely self-maintaining. In many years of daily computing and tons of downloads, I have yet to get a virus and I spend zero time on that issue. My software takes care of everything. You need to run multiple tools, i.e. one cheap recipe would be Zone Alarm with Norton antivirus, Lavasoft Adaware, Spybot Search and Destroy (TeaTimer), and Hijack This. Takes an hour to install and set up all those titles, and they keep themselves updated.
    5. It's a ridiculous notion to compare the worst PC with the best Mac. Dollar for dollar PCs outperform Macs. Period. Top PCs do not crash.
    6. PCs are easy to fix, inexpensive parts are available everywhere.
    7. With the exception of Logic and a couple other titles, PC offers overwhelmingly superior software options.
    8. Expanding a PC is cheap and there's a zillion awesome add-ons available.
    9. There's infinitely more free stuff available for PCs online.
    10. Bill Gates may suck but Steve Jobs is an uber weasel who would slit your throat for a nickel. Let's be realisitic. (Woz rules)

    Another thing about PCs which is nice if you like Linux (or other OS) is that you can run dual boot. :cool:

    I'm not attacking Mac, I'm just correcting some points about PC. The reality is that my PC is blinding fast, super reliable, and it didn't cost me an arm and a leg. :cool:
  12. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    I use both and I love to criticise both

    Calgary said it vigorously but said it well

    and yes ... Woz rules
  13. iznogood

    iznogood Guest

  14. alimoniack

    alimoniack Guest

    This is a good argument for having two (or more) computers in a professional recording setup. I'm into having both kinds.

    Incidentally, I have found ANALOG TAPE to be the most stable "OS" there is and pleases clients a lot more than ANY lil' digital box...hehe
  15. hueseph

    hueseph Distinguished Member

    Oct 31, 2005
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    I run a dual boot machine with one hooked up to the net and the other with the web disabled. My comp doesn't crash. Personally, I think having your DAW hooked up to the web is asking for trouble whether it be Mac or PC. That being said, I think the ideal situation is to have both platforms. Certainly the higher end Daws are Macs.

    However, it is obvious that Apple is NOT getting the power they need from the current G5s. Not to mention the G5s aren't all that quiet like the G4. When that fan kicks in it's like a meat grinder. The chips are just not performing for them. Not when we have Intel pushing chips beyond 3.5Ghz. This is apparent due to the switch over to Intel by Apple. I had a conversation with a mac rep on the way to T.O. this summer. The main concern in his mind of course was the switch over from a R.I.S.C. based system to S.I.S.C. it will be interesting to see how this pans out.

    The thing is now that the first generation of Intel based Macs will probably have stability and compatibility problems until the software companies can port their software for the Intel chips. Until then, using older software will be like running them in a compatability mode. Therefore a loss of power. Bottom line is; sure go Mac but wait a year or two until the transition pains have gone away.

    Needless to say the extra power will be welcome.
  16. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    I could single out other stuff like the Linux comments but that's for another thread

    My Audio and Video machines don't go on the net.

    Yeah , I'm pedantic and you or a software vendor is not going to change my mind.
    It's my computer and My edit suite ... not yours

    I have enough computers to get net access if and when the net is available.

    You guys in the BIG capital cities think every one have Light-Speed internet, some of us live in a slow-net world at less than 24 and I've never seen 28 ... let alone 56.
    and as for broadband :lol: lol
    and there are people in this country that don't have reliable net at all.

    I'm happy to move files around .... my way

    Cheap Mac parts ... mmm ... perhaps you can get me a cheap Mother Board

    This to and fro can go on for every and has done so ... for ever.
    I've been on this forum for a long time and been Mod of a section and helped many people.
    This round about never goes away and never will.

    For PCB design I use DOS
    For video editing I'm currently on FCP - Mac ... but used to be Avid NT.
    Avid express on XP looks tempting

    PT LE is currently XP but used to be Mac9.1

    Mixplus TDM was Mac7.6 to 9.1
    but now HD is on X and soon I may try XP

    All my web creation is currently 98 or XP

    I recently fired up an Atari 1040 ST to resurrect a very old Midi song.
    and many more examples
    yeah I have a lot of computers
    but their total cost still wouldn't add up to what a 2inch 24 or the multi Adats set me back

    they are all just computers ... use what ever works !
  17. took-the-red-pill

    took-the-red-pill Active Member

    Jan 10, 2005
    Near Clagary
    Home Page:
    Calgary sez:

    "Enough fear mongering."

    I sez:

    Three little words man: Y-2-K. Now THAT was fear mongering. :lol:

    Boy it sure would take a complete moron, or worse, a whole COMPANY full of complete morons, to create an entire operating system without considering that the clock might some day actually click over to 2000.

    If only someone had had the forethought to design that eventuality into their operating system. But who could have such stupendous foresight?

    Dude, Windoze bashing isn't fear mongering. It's recreation. Especially because MS is such a big dumb easy easy target. Think of it as fish in a barrel.

    As you would say: :cool: :cool: :cool:

    Kev sez:

    "You guys in the BIG capital cities think every one have Light-Speed internet"

    I sez:

    Oh yeah? Well I live in the country and I'm right now at a blistering fast...hold on while I check...19,200bps. Wooo Hooo! Beat that suckas!

    hueseph sez:

    "Personally, I think having your DAW hooked up to the web is asking for trouble whether it be Mac or PC."

    I sez:

    Except that writing a virus for 5% of the world's computers just doesn't seem to create the kind of 'mass hysteria' the writers are after, so we simply don't need to worry about it. I don't even have virus software.

    However, we can be, and oftien are, 'carriers.' Kinda like women with hemophelia. They can't get it, but they can sure pass it on. :lol:

    Kev sez:

    "This to and fro can go on for every and has done so ... for ever."

    I sez:

    "It's on a loop!" Jim Carrey, The Truman Show

    Hey, by the way, for those advocating multiple computers, which costs less, one Mac, or two or more PC's(one for the net, and one for a DAW)? And didn't the original poster indicate he was going to buy one computer? And if I were only going to buy one computer...well, I've said my piece. Blah blah blah :roll:

    Hmmmmm... one Ferrari or a whole GARAGE FULL of Pintos... Ooh that could be nice. And I could get my own mechanic and keep them all running at the saaaaaaame tiiiiiiiiiiime. :wink:

    This is fun. Now that I've stirred up the mud, I'll run and hide. tee hee.

  18. Calgary

    Calgary Active Member

    Nov 25, 2005
    The Ferrari-Pinto metaphor is just uneducated. Anyone with any knowledge at all of how the performance of $3,000 worth of PC compares to $3,000 worth of Mac understands the complete inaccuracy of that analogy.

    There are facts and then there are the opinions of people who don't have the facts. The two should obviously not be confused on this issue.

    Here's an interesting fact which is easy to confirm and cuts through all this emotional rhetoric. Computer expert and broadcaster Leo LaPorte currently has the most popular podcast on the net, "This Week In Tech". LaPorte has forgotten more about computers than most of us know. LaPorte is a Mac user, however he does *all his audio editing on PC* including for his podcast. Go talk to Leo about Ferraris and Pintos. Many experts who truly understand the technology from the ground up use PC for audio editing for one reason or another.

    LaPorte is not the only one, I could cite dozens of similar examples but I'd like to avoid an unrelated side debate so I won't. Just the fact that LaPorte specifcally sets aside his trusty Mac in order to edit audio on PC speaks for itself.

    In closing just let me add for the post creator that it's easy to quantify the PC side of this debate, there are tons of benchmarks on Google. The Mac side however is not able to demonstrate clearly this fantastic advantage they supposedly have. A Mac will not "record faster" (???) nor will it neccesarily run more VSTs, crash less, or any of those other unsupported suggestions made here. Period. If you want a Mac, get a Mac, but don't do it because of misinformation. Today's PCs seriously rock and despite the claims of the Mac side, there are a great deal of challenges related with setting up a studio on a Mac, all of which are expensive to solve. :cool:
  19. McCheese

    McCheese Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2005
    Was it hard to say all that with Bill Gates' nuts smacking repeatedly on your chin? Seriously, I know you have a hard-on for PC's, but you yourself say you have no experience with Mac, and despite the fact that Apple apparently molested you as a child, you have the most one-sided arguments ever. You're in the wrong industry to be bashing Macs all day, especially after admitting you don't know anything about them.

    Benchmarks mean $*^t, everyone who "understands the technology from the ground up" knows that. I don't know who Leo LaPorte is, but authority by being a popular 'podcaster' carries about as much weight as being a multi-platinum pop star does for musical knowledge.

    Here's a fact, go look it up for yourself. Windows XP, via DirectX, from the ground up, was never designed to handle more than stereo ins and outs. ASIO is a band-aid for that. Here's another fact, with the myriad of manufacturers for every component inside a PC, it's more difficult to get a PC to run stably. Here's a third fact for ya. I run 4 Macs every day. 2 G5's, 1 G4, 1 iBook. In 2 years of daily use, I have never had one crash, freeze, or give me any other problem. Many times I've been running well over 15 seperate programs on them at once. Lets see a PC do that. I also run 2 PC's, one for gaming, which rides a computer more than any audio program. As finely tuned as it is, it still locks up about once a week. Windows is starting to come around a little bit, but you can't argue that OSX, CoreAudio and the entire Mac platform, isn't designed as a professional OS that gets stuff done.

    Can you get a PC to run stably? Yes, but the people who bet $100k jobs on their computers use a Mac, and they do it for a reason. Does a Mac cost more than a PC? You bet, and you get what you pay for. Hell, I like PC's, I even build my own gaming rigs, but there's no way I'd use one as a professional audio rig. Getting the BSOD mid-gig is not something I want to deal with.

    And another thing. Using :cool: after every post makes you look like a dipshit. :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
  20. iznogood

    iznogood Guest

    "Many experts who truly understand the technology from the ground up use PC for audio editing for one reason or another. "

    glad we agree..... you REALLY have to understand quite a few things to use a pc for audio use....

    "there are a great deal of challenges related with setting up a studio on a Mac, all of which are expensive to solve."

    if you mean installing and authorizing plugs fom ik multimedia.... yes

    the rest is a piece of cake and is done on a daily basis by complete morons (musicians)....

    :cool: :cool: :-?

Share This Page