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Floor monitors.. price issues.. need to be able to practice

Discussion in 'Monitoring / Headphones' started by theaero, Oct 31, 2006.

  1. theaero

    theaero Guest

    Alright, so right now i have a mackie 406m powered mixer (500 watt)

    but no speakers :(.

    We have band practice in my basement, where we have drums and guitar and everything.

    HOWever, we have no way of using vocals atm, and so we were looking to purchase a PA... severeal floor monitors.. maybe two or three, and probably two FOH speakers.

    What would be a cheap way of doing this but still getting a good sound? Should I buy a seperate mixer / poweramp?

    And dose anyone know where i can get monitors for cheap and stuff?
     
  2. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Theaero:
    A quick perusal of the specs on that amp indicate that it only puts out that "500 watts" if you load down EACH of the (2) output channels with a 2-ohm load and even then, it's really just 250 watts from each of those.
    Just so that you understand that this puppy wasn't really designed for a rockin' band but more for a coffeehouse gig....
    Anyway, a 2-ohm load on most amps is not very stable, the output devices get pretty hot, and the distortion amounts tend to go up. And to
    yield a 2-ohm load will require either a pair of 4-ohm speakers or a set of FOUR 8-ohm speakers tied to each amplification channel. Further reading of that amps specs show that the power into a 4-ohm load is almost as much (200 watts), and 4 ohms operation won't tax the amp nearly as much. What to do? Personally, I'd go with a pair of 8-ohm boxes off of each channel (this will yield a 4-ohm load on each). As for the speakers, look for a trapezoidal "wedge" that can be pole-mounted for the house and do double duty as a floor wedge. This way, you'll have plenty of coverage for rehearsals (4 wedges) and a small live gig rig (2 wedges, 2 sound-on-a-stick). Cabinets like this are not hard to find. You may look at regional manufacturers like Sonic, decent US makes like Yamaha, Peavey, or Mackie, or cheap crap from overseas like Madison, Samson, or Beh%^^^&r. Remember that you get what you pay for, and a well-built cab will not only sound better, and generate more dB-per-watt, but hold up better in the long run.
     
  3. theaero

    theaero Guest

    ive been looking on craigslist for a whole new pa in general.. i figure i can make a lil off the mixer i have and just splurge and get a new PA.

    Do you think this is a better idea?
     
  4. zemlin

    zemlin Well-Known Member

    When money is tight, I much prefer buying good stuff used over new crappy stuff.
     
  5. sheet

    sheet Well-Known Member

    Buy yourself a Behringer or Samson headphone mixer/amp $69-99.
    Then buy some good headphones, like Sony 7506s $99 ea.
    Call it a day.
     
  6. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    or some of the IEM ear phones like the Shure E3

    could be the beginning and can help you make the transition to a full IEM system
    yeah I know
    people reading these forums may have noticed I'm a bit IEM conscious at the moment

    as sheet said
    those solo mic input / headphone toys from Behringer and Samson are very cool in the rehearsal room for providing a More Me control of each of you in the band.
    cheap and handy
     
  7. theaero

    theaero Guest

    i want something for when we play live too though.

    which is why i prefer monitors / FOH speakers
     
  8. theaero

    theaero Guest

    alrighty, i was looking on ebay.. what do you think of getting two of these floor monitors

    http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-JBL-JRX112M-12-2-Way-JRX-112M-198-00-RX112_W0QQitemZ220041764765QQihZ012QQcategoryZ47093QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    are these good monitors / do u think this is a good place to make the purchase?

    Id also need two FOH speakers... does anyone have any suggestions for something cheap, but still decent?

    i was looking at teh JBL JRX115s... JBL is a good company :)

    http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PAIR-JBL-JRX115-15-2-WAY-SPEAKER-SYSTEM-JRX-115_W0QQitemZ220043693328QQihZ012QQcategoryZ47094QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


    but... two 250 watt PA speakers, and two 250 watt floor mons?

    thats... 1000 watt?

    i dont think my 500watt mixer can handle it?

    It has 250 watts for main, and 250 for monitor... i was gunna daisy chain the monitors, then daisy chain the mains.

    would this work?
     
  9. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    The bottom line is that until you can spend some real money the PA sound is going to be pretty bad. The big goal is not to waste money on gear that will be thrown away as you move up. My initial reaction is to buy the best pair of speakers you can afford. You should be able to be put on poles so you can use them as FOH, but ideally they should be shaped so you can use them as wedges. (If you get a good deal on speakers that aren't wedge shaped, they can be used as side fills.) Use them with your underpowered PA as FOH speakers. Play live without monitors. (!?!) Aim then back at yourselves during practice. Yeah, things will be tough, but it won't be as much worse in the short run as you think. And in the long run you are better off with a good pair of FOH speakers and an underpowered (but not that bad) amp than with an under powered amp and four lower quality speakers. For a lot of bands starting out, you are playing in cramped little rooms where monitors are essentially useless. IMHO you are better off with a good coffee house PA than a bad 200 seat room PA. (If you are worried that this makes you look "unprofessional" get on YouTube and check out the Beatles, Stones, Who.. Anyone from that era. No monitors. Somehow they managed. You can make do while you are getting started.

    I have to admit I don't have any experience with the JRX series, but I'd be more comfortable with the Yamaha club series or the JBL Eon series. Take your powered mixer to the store and try them. After you have some reference sounds in your ears work the used market for the best deals. Good luck. This all works out in the end for bettor or worse.
     
  10. theaero

    theaero Guest

    yahama club, and jbl eons are both outta my range...

    the jrxs got pretty good reviews... meh

    im a bad singer and i need my voice to cut through to me like.. perfectly so i can change pitch accordingly.. monitors are pretty essential. lol
     
  11. sheet

    sheet Well-Known Member

    JRX are not good foreground speakers. They are background music speakers with lots of marketing hype. Listen for yourself. They sound like crap compared to other boxes in their price range. Buy Peavey for crying out loud.

    Reviews don't mean jack. Who knows who is getting freebies, spiffs, etc? Who knows how you hear and how you perform? YOU do.
     
  12. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Man those JRX's are getting hyped a LOT....and they are not worthy of their namesake. Crappy guts=crappy sound. IMHO, IEM's require too much processing to get decent results, and that ain't cheap. The Yamaha Club series is probably the least expensive route, and if you can't afford that, maybe you need to start with just a pair of wedges and then rent some FOH boxes for the gig...I rent out to a lot of bands that come through my area. They carry the stage backline and monitors, and then rent FOH for the week/weekend.Something to consider...
     
  13. theaero

    theaero Guest

    yea i kinda decided against the JRX FOH speakers.. but i still sorta am fond of the JRX monitors
    http://www.zzounds.com/item--JBLJRX112M

    opinions?
     
  14. theaero

    theaero Guest

    http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVPV12M

    also.. looking at these... any opinions?
     
  15. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    There are worse than those out there. The components have field-replaceable parts (diaphragms and basket assemblies). I used to work for Hartley Peavey and while I am not a fan of some of his business and marketing practices, he usually does provide decent ban-for-the-buck. These monitors are for vocal use, so I wouldn't expect to mic up kick and bass through them, but for what you described that you want to do, I'd say try to find'em for $175.00...
    One caveat: The brief description they give says nada about the material that was used for the cabinetry. Is it MDF or particleboard? DON'T buy them! They will crumble apart when they get smacked against a door frame or dropped off the back of a pick-up. You want PLYWOOD construction for portable sound! I know that the Yamaha Club II is made of plywood...Be sure to find out about this from the Peavey site, not a retailer. Good luck!
     
  16. theaero

    theaero Guest

    alright, well i just found my limit.

    my quota is $800.

    i need at least two monitors, and preferablly two FOHs within this range.

    ideas?
     
  17. theaero

    theaero Guest

    okay, sorry, im a noob with this stuff.

    I figured out I dont need the FOHs so i just need two monitors and an amp.

    I was looiking at QSC amps. But im really really confusd on stuff.

    First off, I wsa checking out the Yahama SM15V's

    (http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-SM15V-500-Watt-Two-Way-Passive-Floor-Monitor_W0QQitemZ220044161279QQihZ012QQcategoryZ47093QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

    but it says the independance is 8. Is this bad?

    Because on teh amp i was looking at (QSC RMX 850), it says it can only power 185watts in 8ohms mode, but thats in stereo. Theres also this bridged mono mode thing, which can do 600watt... but even with that... will it power two 500watt monitors? The RMX 2450 amp though can do 450w / 500w in stereo mode at 8ohms... would that be a better choice?

    Im still starting to understand this stuff, so any clarification would be awesome!! thx!!
     
  18. theaero

    theaero Guest

    Alright. After doing a lot of research, I was thinking about teh following:


    Two Yamaha 15in Club V Floor Monitors
    a RMX 2450 Power Amp
    and a Mackie 1604 VLZ Pro Mixer

    Is this a good combo all in all?
     

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