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full range speakers

Discussion in 'Monitoring / Headphones' started by Turner, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. Turner

    Turner Guest

    Hello,

    Can anyone recommend full range speakers ?
    No typical kind of music, all-round.
    I'm using NS-10 as close speakers and Waldorf emes as midfields right now.
    Thnx for any suggestions !
     
  2. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    I suggeet you stop being lazy and use the search the engine where you will find hundreds of posting about speakers and monitors.
     
  3. Kapt.Krunch

    Kapt.Krunch Well-Known Member

    Can somebody recommend a vehicle?
    No typical kind of usage, all-round.
    I'm using a Vespa for short trips, and F350 for midhauls right now. :roll:


    Kapt.Krunch

    (See how silly that request sounds with NO REAL INFORMATION)
     
  4. Turner

    Turner Guest

    If you don't have anything to say, don't bother answering.
     
  5. Turner

    Turner Guest

    By the way, Audiogaff, the search engine found no post with a title Full range monitors or Full range speakers. The last few posts talk about NS-10's and such. What real information do you need, Captain, is my question really too general ? I thought that this forum was all about sharing knowledge about pro audio gear, and monitors are an important part of it or not ? Just wondering who's being lazy or silly here ... :lol:
     
  6. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    Use your head. You think you are the first person to come here and ask about full range monitors?Search for monitor or speaker and start reading. Just because you didn't find the term "full range" in your search doesn't meant that there has not been talk about full range monitors.

    The problem isn't about sharing knowledge, it is about not having to keep rehashing the same subject over and over when it has already been throughly discussed thousands of times. The archives of postings exist to learn from. Use them.
     
  7. Turner

    Turner Guest

    Audiogaff, the posts in this forum certainly help a lot and I thank
    all the contributors for that !
    But I don't see why this question does not have a place here
    1- you think that the same question can't pop up once in a while ?
    therefore
    2- neglecting any new development that might have been taken place
    between now and the previous post about full range speakers,
    or maybe you think that it is impossible that a new post on this subject could contribute to the other information already on this forum,
    well now it certainly has not. Strange for a person interested in pro audio ... :roll:
     
  8. Kapt.Krunch

    Kapt.Krunch Well-Known Member

    OK...so I do have something to say.

    We could assume that you are talking about monitors from your post, but nobody was certain. Full-range speakers could be home speakers, PA speakers, or monitors.

    We can assume that you want them for...high-power, medium-power, or low-power listening and/or monitoring...but it wasn't specified, even though it MAY have been implied by near- and mid-field references. Which we don't know if you are happy with, or want to replace one or the other.

    So, how large, how powerful? What is the scope of your all-round uses? Everything from classical to rap to country to rock to techno to spoken-word productions? Does it lean toward some more than others?

    What price range are you thinking about? $500? $5000? $50,000? That would help narrow things.

    Powered? Unpowered? Will you need an amp match up as well, if unpowered? Or, do you have an amp already that may help you choose a speaker according to power requirements, etc?

    What brands and models have you researched already? Did you like some, hated others, kind of curious about others?

    That was my point. Providing relevant info to get you in the ballpark narrows down the myriad possibilities. Nobody has any idea what you are looking for, except some full-range all-round speakers. And there's so much pulling teeth to get info out of so many people lately that I guess I went overboard. I apologize.


    Can you provide more info so people have something to grab onto?

    Kapt.Krunch
     
  9. Turner

    Turner Guest

    Thanks for picking up this thread, … and sorry for being too broad.
    Yes I’m talking about full-range monitors for the control room.
    I want to keep both close and midfields, adding a full range,
    especially to control the lows and highs, the whole spectrum and have an additional reference.
    Yes they really have to be all-round (I’m not doing any metal though or
    Real Heavy dance stuff ). So country, rock, dance, spoken word, yes very broad.
    Price range between 2000 - 5000 dollars, including amplifier.
    I really have no idea if I should take active or passive ones.
    If they’re passive I’ll also need an amp for those who matches up.
    Any suggestion for amp ? ( I now have a Crown Macro Tech 2400 )
    I use the Crown on my NS-10’s and Waldorf speakers.
    I already tested a PMC IB1S with a Bryston amp.
    They are great I think, but unforgiving and expensive ( around 7000-8000 I think ).
    Could I use a Crown on the PMC’s ? I also have a Labgruppen amp, don’t know if I could use that one.
    I really have only tested and heard those, so other suggestions welcome.
    Thanks for your replies.

    Peter
     
  10. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Thats much better information.

    See how easy that was.

    Just so I understand you.....you want a set of monitors to .....

    a. Check your mixes you do with the nearfields and the mids....
    b. Install something that is accurate but still sounds good (a little forgiving)
    c. Something to blow the skirts up on the listeners after they've donr their work

    Correct?

    Do they have to soffitt mount?

    Most will do both but the skirt raising really happens when they're flying.

    And I see the budget.

    You will be looking for a used pair.

    a. The budget.
    b. They're already broken in (trust me you WANT this.. just not abuse)
    c. The budget.

    Depending on the dimensions of your room, this will determine how BIG of a bass speaker you're gonna need as well as the power.

    Tri-amped if you have a large room...bi-amped if its a medium one.

    Personally, I like powered speakers. The manufacturers at this level dont generally skrimp on quality and the amps generally are made to match the components used.

    Purists might say otherwise, but until they do this is the gospel.

    I would look to these brands in general. Listening to a set in use is going to go a long way in determining your choice. Its a lot of cash so spend the time and check out as many as you can. Book 30 minutes in a studio with some brands you're interested in. Take your mixes from your room and listen. Heres a few brands..........

    Quested...Dont know much about them but they get a good rep.
    Genelec (my favorites) A pair of 1032A's will kill most monitors....but thats just me ...very very spendy....theres a good reason!
    Westlake (my favorite soffitt mounts) BBSM-10's are killer.
    JBL...still great.
    Dynaudio AIR series. Very tasty.
    Urie 809A/T. Time honored. Time aligned. Passive. Get a huge amp they will take anything you put in there.

    Hopefully your room is ready to house a set of mains. Without proper sound control you are throwing your money away. It would be better to push your mid-fields than attempt a big set in a poorly tuned environment.
     
  11. Turner

    Turner Guest

    Thanks for this reply Davedog.
    Enough stuff for me to think aboiut !
     
  12. I'd look at a pair of Bowers & Wilkins 683. Don't be fooled by the price of the the 600 series...they hold their own with the rest of the B&W line.

    Then you can focus on purchasing a good power amp and still have money left over. (Used Bryston 4b)
     
  13. C E Barry

    C E Barry Guest

    This is too funny. I'm beginning to see it now - a general question followed by the same people doing the Simon C routine from American Idol! All in good fun I guess!

    My experience (worth very little but I'll try not to be rude!):

    I used JBL 4311s powered by a Bryston 3B with the speakers soffit mounted in the corners. Not a good thing unless the room is great which it wasn't (isn't) - approx. 12 x 17 x 7 feet 2 inches in height. I also found the JBLs to be tiring after awhile.

    Then I used Tannoy System 10s which are near field and powered by the same Bryston 3B amp. Better for sure and not too bad in the control room which has DIY acoustic treatment.

    This year I got Focal Twin 6s - my first active speakers. I believe they are a significant improvement - I noticed mid range like I never had before and I believe my mixes are better. It takes a bit of getting used to re the bottom. I'm debating with myself re getting the matching sub but not sure if I can justify the cost for the benefit.

    I also check my mixes on Tannoy PBM 8s because I can't stand my NS-10s and I also use an old pair of Auratone cubes - both of these powered by the same Bryston 3B amp. When I had the Tannoys as my mains I used a Bryston 2B for the mixdown speakers. The mixdown speakers sound better of course with the 3B. Just my experience.

    ceb
     
  14. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    nice post ceb

    many people will have been through a similar thing to you

    interesting you found the 4311 tiring

    soffits in a small room is not an easy set up and the result can be dissapointing

    borrow a sub before you splash the money
    again ... back to the issues of small rooms

    NS-10 love them ... hate them
    you get that

    keep experimenting with the DIY acoustics
    concentrate on diffusion
    low end absorbtion is probably not going to work in a small room ... but try corner absorbtion
    open the door ??


    Dynaudio passive
    JLM BAM active
     
  15. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    My experience has led me to believe, especially in soffitt mounted monitors in a smaller room, that the rear wall is the most important surface to control. Old skool suggests that a full heighth wall-mounted book case full of hardback volumes of all different sizes to be more than adequate in most cases. Even if not perfect, the benefits and the cost greatly outweigh the minor lack you would achieve with this.

    Plus....you can effectively recycle great art!
     
  16. C E Barry

    C E Barry Guest

    I've got broadband panels in the corners and the wall behind the speakers is completely covered in the broadband panels around the window. Then I have some Auralex mini diffusers on the wall on the one side and Auralex T-fusers on the back wall (behind mix position) as well as a piece of Auralex Venus bass trap behind the mix position as well. Mind you the t-fusers would need to be a greater distance behind the mix position to be effective I think. The broadband panels I made myself. If I were to take the treatment out of the room, you couldn't stand it in there but it is far from perfect.

    I hear you on the sub - pretty costly given that you only throw it on once in awhile. As someone else said the Focal Twin 6s do give a lot of bass anyway.

    The best advice I read re mixing was to listen to a commercial cd you really like and hear what your room does to it. If it is a bit thin or a bit bassy with the pro cd then - you have to have your mixes go that way as well. Mind you if you were mixing for someone else, he'd have a heart attack listening to his mix but if it ended up sounding like a pro cd in the end it would be worth it. Kind of a weird way of thinking but it makes sense - mind you I don't think my room is THAT far off. I know when you put your back to those broadband corner panels I made, the bass is much more "thumpy" compared to the way the bass is in the mix position. Like I said - not perfect.

    Small rooms - nearfield speakers for sure and broadband in the corners for sure; after that - it is trial and error I guess, at least for me!

    My mixes are getting a bit better but I compared a mix lately to a Crowded House cd the other day and kind of shuttered. The Crowded House cd has such great bottom end and the sounds were great; the bass in my mix was not as focused - gotta keep trying!

    If anyone is considering making his own acoustic treatment I can send a picture or two.

    My email is barrypatch@sympatico.ca

    ceb
     
  17. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    ceb,

    I too have the Focal Twin's... but I'm not experiencing the bass boost you're observing... which is likely to be your room or you could possibly have the LF attenuator turned up.

    I'd do a frequency sweep of your room and look for anomalous peaks in your waterfalls.

    If you have too much LF in the room, it would explain why your mixes are somewhat thin in the LF range.
     
  18. C E Barry

    C E Barry Guest

    Madmax,
    What I have in my room is probably common to most basement type studios that have DIY acoustic treatment. In the mix position the bass sounds fairly balanced but if you put your back into a corner and listen, the bass is boomy or thumpy. This definitely is related to the room but would be fairly common in home studios I'll bet. I've got 4 inches of compressed insulation in the corner panels - maybe I should stick another 4 inches in there but there isn't much room to do that.

    By the way, how do you like the Twins? Did you find that you need a sub? Do you think your mixes have improved since you got the Focals? Sorry for so many questions - I think the Focals are very nice!

    ceb
     

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