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FX Routing questions

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Bebopper, May 4, 2001.

  1. Bebopper

    Bebopper Active Member

    Hi Dedric,
    Thanks to you and numerous others I have finally made the plunge into Paris and I am excited. Just put the order in today. 3.0 looks amazing BTW. Anyway after seeing Paris in action I was impressed to say the least with it's depth and smooth airy quality...But then again we were listening to some of Brian T's work.

    During the demo I was dissappointed to find out that the DX/VST FX can only be utilized through the channel inserts, no aux bus capability. I was told the only way to use DX/VST FX through the aux sends was to change the submix to "native" which would excerpt the EDS effects...NOt good. And to boot, the aux returns cannot be routed to a channel fader. I like to work this way in analog and had hoped to work this way in Paris too. Do you have any workaround suggestions? I enjoy controlling the FX returns and having the option to EQ and ride FX levels via fader. I know I am going to have to redifine the way I mix because of this.

    In one instance especially for Reggae Dub FX I run the mono delay return back through a channel fader and then send the FX aux send (of the delay) back into itself. This creates a feedback loop only described as Delay orgasm. Quite popular with the old Lee Perry stuff. I want to be able to achieve this with Paris. Is there any way I could achieve this by doing a workaround given the EDS/Native structure of Paris? How are you using DX/VST effects with Paris routing wise. Many thanks!

    Thanks for all of your suggestions in advance.

    -Bop :D
     
  2. Dedric

    Dedric Guest

    Congrats on getting a Paris rig!

    Remember that with 3.0 you can chain EDS effects on one Aux so you could combine EDS effects, *and* all of these can have an external send in the chain!.... So, to send EDS effects back into a track/channel instead of Aux returns, put an EDS effect (e.g. delay) on an Aux bus with the next send on that bus set to external. Route the Aux sends in the Paris patchbay externally out and back into Paris via analog or digital I/O on the MEC (physically connect the ins and outs to each other) and connect to channels instead of Aux returns in Paris' patchbay. Set Paris for "Live Mix" monitoring instead of "Record Only", or "Always Monitor Input", and you have a live, track/channel-controlled Aux return, with feedback capability.

    It works very well - I've tried it - nice buildup to chaos and ear distruction. I'm sure you probably put a compressor in line to control feedback (which you can ALSO do on the Aux as long as you have enough DSP room in that EDS card - put the EDS Stereo Comp before the external send, or a mono EDS, or VST/DX comp(s) on the return mixer channel(s) and you have a feedback limiter.

    This is one way to combine EDS effects and VST in more complex, and reordered patterns. As long as you have I/O to use, there are plenty of routing options - just different in some ways than a traditional console, but in many others, much more powerful.

    You could also achieve the same results by using an external FX processor, fed from Aux sends/MEC outs, with returns connected to MEC ins. Just set the Aux for External (i.e. if you have used up EDS DSP for other effects, comps, etc, or just have a favorite outboard FX processor).

    I use VST plugins on channels only right now (i.e. haven't had much need for native submixes). I use external reverbs for my main effects since no plugins really compare, IMO. I use VST and EDS for other various, single-track effects, delays, chorus, EQs and compressors, etc, so the routing isn't a big issue for me. Technically it just isn't feasible to run VST/DX effects on auxes or buses with card submixes since these are run in the host CPU, before audio is routed to the PCI bus and EDS card - AFAIK, this is a limitation of host-plugins for any hardware hybrid DAW that utilizes external
    I/O and not just host-based routing.

    Regards,
    Dedric
     
  3. Bebopper

    Bebopper Active Member

    Dedric,
    You have just opened my mind up to a host (sorry no pun intended) of possiblities. Duh! Why didn't I think of the hardware routing? I just wanna kick myself. Been spending too much time with VST and completely forgot about the analog I/O routing of Paris. That was a pretty obvious but cool trick. I assume the latency is minimal if any. I guess you are right about outbaord verbs. God knows I have a few lying around. Time to patch in that old REV 7. I was jumping ahead of myself thinking about the Uinversal Audio Digital powered plug in card. I thought it would be a good idea to employ some of those Kinda Loud Real Verbs. I may just get one anyway just for the 1176Ln and LA2A plugs. A million thanks for your extremely helpful suggestions. Oh and by the way thanks for the warm welcome to the land of Parisians.

    Best,
    -Bop :)
     

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