Discussion in 'Mixing & Editing' started by audiokid, Feb 12, 2013.
Casey talks about using multiple reverbs
That was awesome! I've spent the last couple years really pulling up my f/x part of my studio. While I don't have a bricasti I do have a lexicon PCM 70 and 90. Layering reverbs romm mics and f/x is one of the truly most fun parts of mixing for me.
I'm with you. thumb This is my new inspiration now. I get so much enjoyment using room high quality simulators and creating space. I want a few Bricasti's now. I bought an $4000 Orville last month but returned it after comparing it to the Bricasti. Eventide is cool, but nothing like this. This is one of the most amazing pieces of gear I have ever owned.
Some history, some of you might remember doing this with a Roland tape echo in the 70's. I would play in my room with that thing for hours on end. Get a loop happening and jam to it. Then digital delay came out. In the late 70's before digital delay had the ability to lock MTC , no more than 4 presets, I figured out how many BPM the delays were for each song and then dialed it in based one that. I had a huge list of numbers and eventually memorized most of these. A few years later digital delays came out with the BPM patches like we see in plug-ins now. Later everything locked to Midi. What a breakthrough. Reverb is the same idea to me, just a smoother way of using time and reflections to create space based on BPM. Its why I'm reevaluating the pro's and cons live rooms have in mixing again.
Exaggerated compression with delayed attacks on entire mixes is pretty cool too. "Look ahead" technology is going to bring all sorts of new ways to shape sound and space.
What a great video! Coming from a software programming and musical background i can really identify with Casey. What a visionary.
Look at his background. Ultrasound technology. Looking into the space of the human body and now designing reverb for the pro audio guru's of the world. Astonishing.
Well that's a nice video and it certainly demonstrates how nice that M-7 can be. Certainly not inexpensive. Certainly not inexpensive to have more than one. But that's Chicago Recording Company, it ain't in little Billy's bedroom studio. Costs a few dollars more than a reverb plug-in. It gives Lexicon a run for its money, where he once worked. And we only got a lot of these DSP chips for reverbs, after the Cold War came to an end. That's when classified military DSP chips, hit the consumer market. And the world changed. That typical digital reverb scenario he was referring to were from those early military DSP chips. Then we got the Sharc (Shark?) DSP chip you're finding in most everything. Which is I think what he was referring to above the earlier digital reverbs and effects processors?
It's cool to layer reverbs all different types and different settings. It's how you get those interesting spatial sounds. And while he was demonstrating how cool his device is, it still required four of those devices to obtain what he was talking about. Only available to the rich few. So why shouldn't it sound good? How much was yours Chris? $4000? And you need four of them. And then you need that remote. No problem if you are CRC. A far greater problem if you are an independent studio. Of course it should be great. It comes with a great BIG price tag. And I wouldn't expect anything less.
Back in 1991 I acquired a Quandtech, room simulator/reverb. Basically it was the M-7 before there was a M-7. I needed the cash so I sold mine to Bob HODAS, for like five or $6000? Can't remember? And that was after I talked to another colleague I knew by the name of Steve Marshall a.k.a. Steve St. Croix. He told me that those German algorithms were no good and that the Germans didn't know how to do reverb. So I needed his chips for the mere cost of $4000 or was that $3000? Either way, I knew Steve was mostly deaf and he's telling me the Germans didn't know how to do reverb. Just my discussion with him alone made me want to sell the unit off because that's BS. And Steve was very good with BS. He also told me how profound his hearing loss was back in the 1970s LOL. He would go out with his ARP 2600 along with John Ariosa, of Sheffield Recordings Ltd. and they would turn this nonsense up to total ear bleeding levels. So much so, I had to leave to protect my hearing from permanent damage. What a bunch of morons! I guess they were just trying to prove, collectively, how deaf they could make each other? Neither Steve nor John in 1978 could even hear their watches taking anymore. And there audio experts? How can you be an audio expert if you are deaf? Steve was so stinking filthy rich, he never had to work a day in his life. Neither did John whose Italian father owned a construction company. And then they had a fight and falling out over the Marshall Time Modulator that utilized analog bucket brigades. That's when they parted company. So if you beat some folks to the punch at certain things, you too can become wealthy. But ya really need to start there with that wealth first. And that's why John could afford the best. That's why Steve could have the fastest cars and the meanest choppers, on the road. Money was no object for those guys just like CRC.
We all know that the good digital reverbs originally cost around $15,000. Which was the Lexicon, the EMT and the Quandtech, Eventide and very few others that were worth anything. Now we've got the latest flavor the Bruschetta M-7. Perfect for the luxury studio that has everything. It still seems as though he is also running some highly well-established algorithmic reverb programs? And the modifications therein that he created. What I like one? You bet! Sounds great! All-Pro no snow. So I'd definitely wouldn't turn one of those down. But one does not need to spend that much money if you already have a bevy of other digital reverb sound effects devices, if you know what you're doing. So you have to layer things from more than just one remote control OMG? How could anybody do that? Is that a plug-in for $50? No. You just do what you need to do as an engineer. If that device is affordable and makes your job easier to do and you can justify an amortized the cost, go for it. For all others... there's MasterCard.
Paul 999 make some wonderful sounding recordings. I don't think you have one of those M-7's do ya Paul? So how can you make stuff that sounds so good? It can't possibly be good because you don't have a M-7. So really we don't want to hear you posting anything else until you get one of those. Just kidding. A 70 and a 90 is all anyone really needs. Sure we all like that sound of a nice space. The Quandtech did a fine job there. So did an old EMT plate. If you used it with EQ's, pre-delay, compression, gating, downward expansion, keyed from a KEPEX 1 and your room. Which is what real audio engineering is all about. It's not about pressing buttons on a gizmo. It's creating life from no life. Solo instrumental or vocal recordings don't sound like much without some kind of a room space. And one does not need a super cool M-7 to obtain that. You need it. Not everyone does. It's so cool, you haven't gotten home from your honeymoon yet. And in a short while, it will just become another piece of blasé electronics not worth one quarter of what you paid for it. But maybe not? Lexicon 480's still aren't all that cheap. They are cheap compared to their original MSRP new. They still go for well over $5000 on the used market. In fact I've still seen some between 10,000 & $15,000. It's not nice and small and portable fitting into 1 U, of rack space. And maybe that's a problem for the bedroom/basement studios that have a rack that can only hold 8 U, of junk? I've got racks up my ass and I still don't have enough rack space. I've got four, floor to ceiling racks stuffed chock full of stuff. I've run out of space for anything else without removing major pieces of equipment. So yeah, that M-7 is about the only other thing I could get in. And I'll probably not get one even if I could swap one of my 67's for one of those? Who knows? I might? I'm addicted to good reverb and room simulators.
Chris you were talking about some of those horrible sounding stems of really horrible sounding recorded vocals. I don't doubt that. But they were going for a sound within the mix. So to Solo that vocal isn't really fair. Not unless you stick it in with everything else and then it sounds just right. It's ready for radio play. That's what it's designed for. You don't necessarily think about how high fidelity it is if it works. And it worked for them. It made them wealthy. So, bad equals wealthy. Good equals broke. Nobody really cares how good it is as long as it works. You don't know if that hit would have worked if you had recorded the vocals your way? And it might not have anything to do with how the vocals are recorded at all? It only matters if the children like it. And we know what experts in music engineering children are. I mean they think a McDonald's hamburger is one of the most... things they have ever eaten. Far better than mommies cooking. But we know that not to be true don't we? I mean unless your mother is a crack addict? And quite a few are. So then, McDonald's wins out over mommy. Because mommy can't deliver a decent meal. Just like lousy engineers that get really lucky. And then everybody thinks they're geniuses because they're getting the gold records that went gold before any were sold. So that doesn't mean that 500,000 people actually purchased that record. It's only an indicator of how many were stamped out to begin with. Then plenty of money is thrown at publicity and tours, interviews on TV, to bolster the sales. And poor folks can't do that. Doesn't matter how talented they are. Doesn't matter how talented you are. You simply have to be lucky. You don't have to be good. Being good is better than being lucky but not financially. Not unless you're lucky and most aren't. So nobody really cares in this Mid-Atlantic Void that I have Grammy, Emmy & Soul Train Music Awards nominations. They don't care that I bring with me my talent and a control room most of the studios in the country could only dream about. But instead, these local yokels go to Little Billy's basement studio and spend the same amount of money that they would spend to have me do it, with my truck, for them. But these local yokels musicians don't know the difference between a Neve and a lawnmower. Yet they all get these musical trade publications that explicitly indicate what the superstars are recording upon. And they still don't get it? And because if you don't use a studio condenser microphone for the lead vocal, you must not know what you're doing. And I don't need amateurs telling me how recordings are to be made. So if I'm going to continue doing what I do, I've got a get out of here, permanently. And then you go to the cities where the music is actually happening by real musicians actually playing. And where they understand what the superior studios, equipment and engineers have to offer because they're smart. That's why they moved to that big city to begin with. You don't become famous in Baltimore or DC. And if you were to, you'd quickly move elsewhere, away. Because the good musicians, with a good technique and a good knowledge don't live here, anywhere. The ones that knew they had some real talent, moved away from this mid-Atlantic void. I've actually done much better in other studios and cities, NYC, Philadelphia, Ft. Lauderdale/Miami and where I came from in Detroit. It ain't here. Good musicians, sure, all outrageously stupid. The vision of a mole. And because I haven't done PA for a living, like the others studio owners have, my hearing is still quite intact, undamaged. So I hold very little relevance in guys that made PA their living because I already know they are suffering from substantial hearing impairment. And if musicians want to work with deaf engineers more power to them. They're only getting what they deserve. A deaf guy making their recordings. That's very impressive indeed. I don't even think I would try to record music if I knew I had a substantial hearing impairment? Kind of like a former President saying, (because the audio was bad?) READ MY LIPS... NO NEW TAXES. Wow! And I could actually hear him say that. It certainly wasn't the truth. Maybe it was the microphone that made him so convincing sounding? Not. It was just all of the stupid people that were reading his lips. They were listening with their eyes just like so many folks do here. They learned it from the President of the United States. So it must be correct. You don't need to listen to anything as long as you can see it. And that's what most of the engineered music sounds like to me today. Chris, you've expressed the same thing about gold and platinum hits. Some of it is truly awful in a bombastic beginner like way. How could that be when millions of dollars are on the line? Simply because, nobody cares what you care about, what we care about, anymore. It only matters how much money it's going to bring in. Along with how small an investment you can get away with, to make millions of dollars. You'd think they would go to the best studios with the country's best engineers? But the best engineers have all retired for the most part. Leaving the kids with the college degrees in recording, to carry on. And I know what they've been taught and what they have yet to learn. Some are extremely good with computer games a.k.a. ProTools and others. And I think that's an accomplishment in and by itself, by itself. It certainly says nothing about recording technique or the knowledge behind it. But they have proved their proficiency in computer program manipulation's. And today, you really need to have both of those talents to be a truly excellent professional. And I cannot fill the shoes of some of those excellent ProTools jockeys. Being proficient in ProTools is an expertise unto its own. Otherwise, you wouldn't see that credit roll in the movies. So that's a highly refined specialty. It does not negate the need to understand different microphones and their uses along with the interface to the rest of the tracking system. But they don't have to know anything about that. They're only hired as ProTools jockeys. To me it's just another piece of software that allows you to do things if ya can get deep enough into the software. And it's known to be a rather deep program along with Logic and all the others of the top shelf softwares. And so even entry-level folks can somewhat navigate their way through basic recording projects. They aren't doing things like lock to film and mixing dialogue with sound effects and music.
That M-7 does have a nice full bandwidth dense quality to it. And it's that density that I find lacking in most digital reverb algorithms and impulse response reverbs. And from that demonstration, I think it presented a density, rivaling what a plate can deliver. And that's what I've been looking to hear. It sounded way better than any of those UAD DSP plug-in cards sounded like in their demonstrations. I mean that device sounds like crap in comparison to this M-7 or should I say four of those 7's. And which would stand to reason if you're spending that kind of money. So that little plug-in card thingy that everybody is raving about are just a bunch of raving lunatics. And you know that because you have a M-7. And where it's easy to tell the difference between good and cheap. As opposed to cheap and good. But if you can't spend the big dollars, you're left with that other imitation which ain't bad. Ain't great either. Does not sound like an EMT plate. Not even close. Yours does. So you made a great purchase decision Chris. It's a dreamy sounding device for sure. Now if they can only come out with a $150 version of that LOL? And that should be out by next year. Or maybe the year after? But you know it won't be long before it becomes a single button drop-down plug-in. Because as we see, that's where everything is going. The professionals though, will still keep using the old crap, as they always have, as they always do, as they are doing today. There is no reason to change just for change sake. That's only necessary when this is a hobby.
My hobby is motorcycling but my motorcycle is broke boo-hoo. And that screws up your hearing also LOL.
Mx. Remy Ann David
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