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Get yer P4's UPDATE 3/4/02

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Tommy P., Feb 14, 2002.

  1. Tommy P.

    Tommy P. Well-Known Member

    Jan 10, 2002
    Intel's new Northwood core is here. It has 512 L2 on board cache compared to the older P4 which had only 256 L2 on board.

    The P4 1.6a (notice the "a") costs around $150.00. The amazing thing is it overclocks with a slight bump in the FSB to a P4 2.2Ghz and beyond with the stock heat sink and fan.

    UPDATE! 3/4/02 The 645 chipset is not yet ready for prime time as far as pro audio goes,(thanks to our fav guinea pig doin the testing) go for the INTEL CHIPSET solution and see the post"AND THE WINNER IS"!
    Now the ASUS P4S333 SIS645 motherboard goes for around $100.00 and has greatly improved PCI bandwidth. It uses DDR ram.

    So for $250.00 you can have motherboard and proccesor up to 2.2Ghz, rock solid with the fastest floating point performance.

    And forget about dual cpu motherboards, its been proven time and again that money spent on a faster single cpu will outperform a dual. Even dual optimized software doesn't utilize both cpus all the time. ;)

    Tommy P.
  2. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Distinguished Member

    Apr 7, 2001
  3. Tommy P.

    Tommy P. Well-Known Member

    Jan 10, 2002
    Yup, I've read the review comparisons between chipsets, and they had the SIS come out behind in the graphics score.

    There's just one thing:

    Those little piss ass review nerds don't give a flyin $*^t about computers applied to professional music and PCI bus issues.

    There, I've said it. :eek:

    And on a saner note, here's something I've been tracking since the middle of last year from the SIS website:

    "To resolve the PCI-133 bandwidth bottleneck, 3 technologies are utilized in SiS961, namely multiple DMA buses, Multi-threaded I/O Link, and MuTIOL® Connect. Instead of connecting all the I/O bus masters to the PCI bus, each integrated I/O bus master as well as the PCI master clusters is offered a dedicated DMA bus with separate address bus, input data bus, and output data bus that features pipeline & split transaction. The integrated Multi-threaded I/O Link further buffers and manages these multiple DMA buses to ensure concurreny of multiple upstream and downstream data transfers. Finally, the MuTIOL® Connect interfaced the Multi-threaded I/O Link interconnects the SiS961 to a series of SiS NBs, including but not limited to SiS640, SiS740, SiS645, and SiS650. The MuTIOL® Connect features a bi-directional 16 bit data bus operating in 4 x 66MHz delivering 533MB/s bandwidth"

    See, somebody does care!........
  4. the kid

    the kid Guest

    thanks, tommy p. specs on the sis board look fantastic - have seen the reviews putting it tops in graphics and gaming. i'm in final stages of building a pc.. and wanted to buy this board (speed, specs, etc)- but could not find one person actually using it for pro audio - couple happy guys with older sis boards and others with stories of incompatibilities and instability. i can't speak for sis not ever having owned one of their products, but until i find someone (even one person right now) how has documented good news on this chipset, i still think i have to side with the intel (the big question is whether to go with the i850 board and Rambus, or DDR memory in the 845D). Wish you luck in your work. Thoughts are apprec.
  5. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Distinguished Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    OK!!! I just got the AsusP4S333-VM with 1.4Ghz P4, 320 Watt PSU and a case for 315.00!!!
    That covers two day shipping as well!!!!!!!!
    What a bargain..I'm starting off with 512MB PC2100 DDRam and will up it as I need it!!
    So far I've spent 475.00 on this new system!!
    I cant wait to actually get it now and put it hru the test!!
    I will of course let you all know how it goes and if it's truly worth it!!!
    I'll probably get the board sometime next week as well as the memory..I've allready got everything else so I'll slap it together and post my results!!!
  6. the kid

    the kid Guest

    god bless you, mr opus. anxiously waiting for your thoughts. the Asus site says this has the SiS 650 chipset - any idea how this is different from the 645 chipset found in the Asus P4S333 board? and while i'm bombarding you with questions, was this a clear cut decision over the likes of the Intel 845 or 850 chipsets?

    apprec the help.
  7. SonOfSmawg

    SonOfSmawg Well-Known Member

    Sep 10, 2000
    I'm so ^#$%ing tired of new technology! Just when you think you have something all figured-out...whap...back to the damn drawing board! I'm an AMD man, but I gotta check this out...
  8. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Distinguished Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    So true Smawg!! Thats why I waited as long as I did!! I'm patient..a good quality to have these days I might add!!
    I will definatley let you all know what I find with this new setup o mine...I know it's going to rock my world!!
    Now, I've got to go meet up with me fellow co workers to have a guy from Steinberg talk to us about Nuendo(ha..like I dont know it allready :p )
    I'm just going to hit him up for free software!! lol!! I love my job!!
  9. SonOfSmawg

    SonOfSmawg Well-Known Member

    Sep 10, 2000
    Okidoki...I did a little homework...and, as usual, I'm more confused and have more stupid questions...
    The Asus motherboards mentioned above are very different from each other:
    The P4S333-VM is based on the SIS650 chipset. It has 3 PCI slots and supports 2Gb PC2100 (2 slots). Hmmm...so why do they label it "333"?
    The P4S333 is based on the SIS645 chipset. It has 6 PCI slots and supports 2Gb PC2700 (3 slots). I found it on Pricewatch for $99 + shipping.
    BUT ... the P4B266 has Intel north AND south bridges! It has 6 PCI slots and supports 2Gb PC2100 (3 slots). Pricewatch ... $142 + shipping.
    So, since the drawback with the Intel-based boards is always the damn VIA southbridge, would this non-VIA board perhaps be prefered over the SIS-based boards? As far as price goes, if the $43 difference is going to break you, then you shouldn't be blowing your money on your computer! The real issue here is performance and stability.
    And the CPU: I searched Pricewatch by just entering "P4 1.6a", and came up with only 1 listing ... $160 + shipping. 1.7 ... nothing. 1.8 ... $220 + shipping. 1.9 ... nothing. 2.o ... LMAO, better win the lottery! Anyone have a link to get these cheaper?
    Are you sure you can SAFELY O/C the 1.6 to 2.2??? What kind of heat is that going to generate? Very special cooling needed to do it? Assuming that it can be done safely (?), would that same theory apply to being able to O/C the 1.8 to 2.4? Assuming that it can be done safely, could someone explain EXACTLY how to do this O/C procedure? It would be terribly irresponsible to tell people how cool this is, and then find multiple posts where guys are frying their new mobos ... hehehe.
    OH...and OPUS...you lucky SOB! Isn't that like working for the mint and getting to bring home free samples? Hmmm ... maybe I should talk to Joel about going to work for Soundscape ... :D
  10. Tommy P.

    Tommy P. Well-Known Member

    Jan 10, 2002
    None of the SIS boards use a VIA southbridge! They use an SIS southbridge. :p it's called the SIS961 and is described in my post above.

    Here's a link to a retailer I trust here on the east coast, and some real nice people, P4 1.6a . I've been in the store in person, and they have a good rep in the online world.

    Here's the Asus at the same place. It has the six bus mastering PCI slots and will allow you overclock up to 2.2Gig to 2.4Gig with a P41.6a P4S333 . I don't think the VM version will allow the FSB overclock and it only has 3 PCI slots.

    The Asus P4B266 uses the Intel 845D and uses DDR ram, its also a winner. P4B266 .

    If you go the RDRAM route, you won't be able to overclock.

    Now let me say this, when I say overclock, there isn't much stress being placed on the chip as would usually be the case. Intel has manufactured a racing engine in the "a" core P4, and we are only taking off the governor!

    I also love buying from newegg.com on the west coast, but they sold out of the 1.6a pretty quickly. They have the 1.7a and up, but they are all the same chip, so why pay more?(most of the new "a" core chips max out at 2.4gighz overclock).

    EDIT #1: I've been a member(subscribed) over at Anandtech for a long time now, and this Northwood chip is hot news. The overclock is with the stock heatsink/fan runs cool! So use one of these Zalman heat sinks and run at 20db noise floor, quieter than the Carillon computers! Zalman . They also have the quiet power supplies that have a temp sensor that lowers the fan speed if the ambient temp stays below a certain level.

    Heres one of the threads at AT on the new sensation. Hot deals forum

    EDIT #2: I'll be glad to help anyone through the set-up process on any of these boards. Get some good ram preferably Crucial. Here's the factory direct link with the special 15% off 15% off Crucial

    the 256mb DDR PC2100module is CT3264Z265 @ $71.39 ea,
    the 512mb DDR PC2100module is CT6464z265 @ $143.00 ea.

    Mushkin is another good brand of ram.

    You can also find some DDR PC2700 but I don't think anyone will need it. Heres why. The P4 is a quad pumped FSB(front side bus) running at 4 X 100=400FSB. The ram runs at only 100FSB(thats why PC1600 DDR ram would work fine if we didn't want to overclock). PC2100 is 133Mhz ram.
    So heres the math: The P4 1.6a uses a 16X multiplier(locked by Intel). 16 X 100 = 1600 Mhz.
    16 X 133(PC2100)= 2128Mhz. So without even overclocking the PC2100, we are at 2128Mhz!
    16 X 138 will get us 2208 Mhz (with the CPU cruising along at 552FSB. So much for AMD's 266FSB)(Rambus RDRAM is 100Mhz ram @ 400CPU FSB). I've had my Crucial PC2100 solid at 145, so I believe I can safely recommend to everyone that 138 is gonna happen for ya.
    Now if you get my drift, some of us are gonna get to a rock stable 2320Mhz with standard cooling.(with the CPU at 580 FSB!)

    LOL, and by the end of the year, everything will be past 3000Mhz and we get to start all over. What a racket.

    Newegg back in stock again for $148.00+6.95 S=H, no tax unless you live in California. newegg.com

    Edit#3 fixed Crucial link

    Tommy P.
  11. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Distinguished Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    And let me clarify....I goofed and typed VM since I was looking at that model on the ASus site in the meantime. I did get the Asus P4S333 with the 6 PCI slots!! Wouldnt think of getting anything with less than 5!! lol
    I cant wait!! I cant wait!! Woohoo...finally a system that will let me do competely insane things!! Hee hee!!
  12. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Jan 18, 2002
    Guys, there's a lot of P4 socket 478's on Pricewatch that don't say "a", but DO say 512 cache - If all the older p4's only have 256 cache, does that mean that all the "512's" on PW are the newer Northwood ? Also, has anybody seen a DDR MoBo with more than 3 ram sluts ? I'd like to be able to run a gig of ram without resorting to 512 meg chips, since it seems that all the 512's have to be registered (extra clock cycle) for the MoBo to find its ass with both hands - if I could find a 4-slut MoBo I could do a gig with 256's. Anybody? Plan to slaughter credit cards on Tuesday, finalizing parts list Mon. nite. Good news fer shure on the O.C. stuff - I really didn't want to pay $200 more just to get over 2 gHz... Steve
  13. SonOfSmawg

    SonOfSmawg Well-Known Member

    Sep 10, 2000
    I think you misunderstood my post. Here's my point...
    The P4S333 and the P4B266 are very similar. Both have 6 PCI slots and 3 DDR slots. The P4S333 uses SIS north & south bridges, but the P4B266 uses Intel north and south bridges (neither of them have VIA chips). So, my question is...
    Would it be worth the extra $43 to get the P4B266 due to the fact that it uses Intel chips rather than SIS chips? Is the P4S333 just as good? Just as stable? Does the P4B266 overclock the same as the P4S333? Same results?
  14. Tommy P.

    Tommy P. Well-Known Member

    Jan 10, 2002
    Sorry!, misunderstanding things is my interpretation of everything, ask my wife :D .

    I am personally interested in the SIS 961 southbridge because of SIS's highlighting of thier special technology to remove the PCI bus as a bottleneck. Seems they've done quite a bit to address issues.

    There are also some highlights of the Asus P4B266(Intel 845D) to consider. The P4B266(not the "C" version) has 4-USB 2 ports. If future audio interfaces utilize this standard, it may be of importance.
    Also the Intel ATA controller in the 845D chipset is optimized for thru-put because of the ICH2 South Bridge and a specially developed caching driver called Intel Application Accelerator. The SIS board doesn't have this, and lags slightly in benchmarks of the disk I/O subsystem.

    Both of these Asus boards have been successful in achieving the overclock with the new P4 Northwood.

    If a retailer lists the 512 L2 cache of a P4 processor, it would have to be a Northwood core, but calling the retailer by phone would be the best way to avoid misunderstandings, IMHO.

  15. Tommy P.

    Tommy P. Well-Known Member

    Jan 10, 2002
    By the way, my preference to this new setup with the Northwood/SIS is

    a) lower heat from the CPU so I can use a slower fan with less fan noise.

    b) better floating point performance than AMD.

    c) robust PCI bus(less dropouts from PCI wait states, reduced clock jitter)

    I'm using an AMD/SIS735 now and am impressed with it. link to my main rig

    Tommy P.
  16. garysjo

    garysjo Active Member

    Jun 15, 2001
    Pembroke, MA
    Hey Opus, what brand/model PSU and case? And what vendor? This northwood chip & mobo combo has got me ready to take the dive. Of course, i bet I'm not the only one chomping at the bit waiting for Opus' (our beloved guinea pig) report. :)
  17. SonOfSmawg

    SonOfSmawg Well-Known Member

    Sep 10, 2000
    Just thought I'd throw in some case info for you...
    A VERY good case/PS is the Antec SX1040(B). It has a killer 400 watt power supply, and the case comes in beige or black. You can find them in the $130 range on pricewatch.
    If you want something less expensive, here are a couple of links for you...
    The second link, the server case, seems like a pretty good deal for $50 + shipping. I checked the AMD site, and the PS is indeed on there. To me, that gives it some credibility, although I know nothing more about it. If you have the extra bucks, though, the Antec is "THE $*^t" (meaning good...lol).
  18. jscott

    jscott Guest

    A couple of comments:

    I've purchased about 7 of the ANTEC Mini Tower ATX Case Model SX635 with 350 Watt Power Supply cases $79.00, great cases which will accomodate the Zalman cooler. They also come with a good 80mm fan, and have snap-in space for another by the hard-drives. This case can also be had without power called the SX600 for about $45.00, you'll have to hunt for it though.

    On the Zalman cooler, note the 20dB is in the "silent" mode, which probably won't do if you overclock. Otherwise I think its 36dB.

    Enermax makes great power supplies, the ENERMAX EG365P-VE( FC ) 350W Power supply is extremly quiet and arguably, the best on the market. They also make larger ones, but the 350's should be just fine for most users.

    Definatley go DDR and buy direct from Crucial.
  19. jetoney

    jetoney Guest

    I was a day away from an 1800xp upgrade with the
    Gigabyte Ga-7dx(?) and would like to know a few things :

    1)Would this be a better alternative as far as processing and plugs go? and

    2)would this chip work well in a dual board config if I decide to go that way in the future?

    3)I know the heat issue will be better, but
    will my Delta 1010 be happy with this config?

    Thanks in advance , and this looks like it might be just what I am going to do.
  20. jetoney

    jetoney Guest

    sorry for the double post
    One last question:
    What is the diff between the power supply you mentioned(ENERMAX EG365P-VE( FC ) 350W Power supply) and this one that someone else suggested(ENERMAX EG365P-VE (FCA) 350W PSU 73.00 )?

    I know it is in the FCA vs the FC, but what does this matter?

    If you don't mind

    Thanks in advance again,
    This forum kicks ass


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