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Getting distance in the recording

Discussion in 'Recording' started by mrfrisky330, Feb 13, 2009.

  1. mrfrisky330

    mrfrisky330 Guest

    Hello!

    I used to have a POD XT which in the mic simulators had a "room" control which created the same sounds a if you put the mic further away from the speaker in a room.

    Unfortunately I no longer had the XT only a Boss GT-10 and its "so called" mic simulator is amazingly rubbish as the sound always sound DI'd where as the POD it sounded spacially further away as though you were hearing it from the other side of the room.

    What is the technical name for this effect and where/can I get a unit that does it, or do you recommend an effects device that has it as part of its functions??

    NOTE: I am not using any PC related recording or effects devices.

    Thank you for your time :)
     
  2. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    The old guys call it room ambiance, the other guys call it reverb.
     
  3. mrfrisky330

    mrfrisky330 Guest

    Its not reverb that occurs after the sound plays this (after much research) is the AIR line6 thingy that creates a sonic distance before the sound occurs.

    Maybe its a phase/filter combination???
     
  4. Codemonkey

    Codemonkey Well-Known Member

    It's a reverb with pre-delay.
     
  5. GeckoMusic

    GeckoMusic Guest

    Ambiance is a type of reverb. Like traditional reverb it only effects the sound after it occurs. (It's just not possible to effect the sound before it occurs. You can make it appear that something happens before the sound by adding a delay that is louder than the original sound, but that will sound unnatural. It is also very hard to play live with this sort of delay.)

    The main difference between ambient reverb and a typical room reverb is that ambient type reverbs have a shorter pre-delay, generally less low pass filtering, very high diffusion, and a short decay time.
     
  6. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    "Ambiance is a type of reverb. Like traditional reverb it only effects the sound after it occurs. (It's just not possible to effect the sound before it occurs."

    In the linear history... ambiance was the only reverb, it was gained from large and spacious rooms. Back in the day. Which was were Jimmy Page developed what he has been credited with as the technique of reverse-echo. Right, I know, it was recording not live.


    I think that is most likely the disparity here...time.
     
  7. jg49

    jg49 Well-Known Member

    As far as I can see from the manual you should be able to tweak your pedals effects to give you something similar. I am not certain that it is a mic simulation effect you are looking for. I would start in the reverb section with the "Ambience" group, which by the way the manual describes as the exact effect you are looking for. Tweak the predelay, eff level, dir level, and or density.
    These pedal's effects can be difficult to adjust unless you are doing this kind of thing all the time. I have found that getting the effect I am looking for is a matter of overdoing it and then backing it off (lowering the eff lvl and increasing the dir lvl until it is more subtle.) Make several saves along the way and then try them out later (fresh ears.)
    You really should not need any other effect other than those built in.
    Another tip is have someone else play while you keep the processer in your lap while making the adjustments.
     
  8. mrfrisky330

    mrfrisky330 Guest

    So what do guys recommend I buy in order to create this effect?
     
  9. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    So you don't evenwant to try using reverb? It is reverb. Find a room verb patch and tweek.
     
  10. mrfrisky330

    mrfrisky330 Guest

    The problem I have is the equipment I have does not have a good room reverb its the usual "full in the face then echoy shimmers" which is not the same as the Line 6 A.I.R effect which positions the initial sound away from you before you hear it so it sounds like its in the distance.

    If you guys know of a decent rackmounted system that can do what you say tell me what it is!!
     
  11. Codemonkey

    Codemonkey Well-Known Member

    If you're willing to go with a VST, "Classic Reverb" will do this (adjustable lo/hi damping, lo cut, early ref volume etc.)
     
  12. jammster

    jammster Active Member

    A decent rackmount would be made by Lexicon. Price and model varies greatly. Most any of them are the best for the most part.

    Another great box is an Ensoniq DP Pro.

    If you would like a cheaper box try and find an Alesis Quadraverb. You can get them dirt cheap used, not sure about the UK however.

    Best wishes to your search,
    Bret
     
  13. jg49

    jg49 Well-Known Member

    You mean that you tried the ambience reverb setting and couldn't tweak it? Or you tried the preset room settings on that came with the pedal? Did you read the manual re: ambience in the reverb section?

    I think you should add at least two more reverb units, because that is what the lexicons are, that way you can have 4 daisy chained verb units, your amp, the Boss, a couple of lexicons oh yeah and the natural reverb of whatever space you are in!

    .Oh, one problem you will still likely have to dial them in to get your effect, which I am certain your Boss unit is capable of doing but maybe your not. If that is the case I don't mean to be stupid but just buy the Pod XL.

    Unless you are a subscriber to the more gear must be better sound school of thought. I subscribe to the more gear, more potential for noise, problems, tone loss camp.

    Once again your Boss unit should be able to render the effect without additional $$$$$.
     
  14. mrfrisky330

    mrfrisky330 Guest

    The GT-10 is pants when it comes to doing that. All it does is add reverb not space and dimension so everything sounds DI'd in the mix and its all in your face no ability to "push" instruments into the background as you can with the A.I.R. facility.

    I was thinking about it in depth and I am beginning to wonder that because its part of Line6's amp/mic modelling combo whether its a combination of phase shifting filters and reverb?

    We all know using phase can create a convincing stereo sound from a mono input and the essence of sonic "distance" is the fact sound has certain harmonic frequencies filtered out as the sound goes further away otherwise a lorry in the distance would sound exactly the same when you stood next to it, so maybe a phase/staged filter unit would also assist?
     
  15. couldn't you just dump the gt10 and go back to line6? the X3 live is golden!
     
  16. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    I have a hard time accepting that you can't simulate a room sound. If it truly isn't possible, that thing is a piece of garbage. Add a small room verb and draw back the direct signal. Usually this is represented by a wet/dry mix parameter. Sometimes represented simply as mix. The less dry you add the more distant it should sound. No parameter adjustment? Take that piece of crap back!
     
  17. mrfrisky330

    mrfrisky330 Guest

    I could, but the GT-10 simulates my Boss pedals better than anything and thats why I bought it to use it for recording so I could get very close to my live setup.

    Also I expected my old Digitech Studio Twin to come up with the goods regarding the issue but it didn't it might have 15+ reverbs but none create the sound of an amp in a room the Line6 does so very well :(
     
  18. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Learn to adjust the parameters. There is a world beyond presets.
     
  19. jg49

    jg49 Well-Known Member

    While Line 6 claims that their AIR effect is propietary it is simply a mix of effects as a preset and using the Boss effects you should be able to come close to what you are looking for. I would think that some sort of very short delay mixed with a proper reverb setting, some EQ; tone decays with distance, reather than phasing is most likely the chain you are looking for.
    Otherwise as I said before buy the POD, because you will not find their preset on any other piece of equipment and there is not an effect that you are "missing."
    No magic pill.
     
  20. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Well, it's probably a convolution reverb. I don't know how proprietary that can be.
     

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