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Give me your opinions on Recording Workshop.?

Discussion in 'Studio Lounge' started by JOL52644, Feb 21, 2008.

  1. JOL52644

    JOL52644 Guest

    I have been looking into the Recording Workshop for a while now. Has any one here attended it? Could you give me some opinions on what your experience was like?
  2. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    The one in Orlando?
  3. JOL52644

    JOL52644 Guest

    Its in Ohio
  4. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Ah, I confused it with the Mixing Workshop - that's in Orlando...
  5. pr0gr4m

    pr0gr4m Well-Known Member

    I went there (ahh the lovely smell of the paper mill) but that was almost 20 years ago.

    I took the main program, the studio maintenance/troubleshooting and the advanced program. The first two were great and very helpful. The advanced was really just more recording time which was fun but I think you would get what you need out of the first two.

    I learned a lot about the nuts and bolts of a studio. Learned things like the difference between condenser and dynamic mics, signal flow and tape machine calibration/alignment. I guess they don't teach that last one anymore. :)

    Anyway, I can recommend the place. It got me a gig at a major studio for a while and I had the time of my life working there. If you don't know much, but want to, it's a great starting place.
  6. Yes, pr0gr4m! That was literally one of the worst, most potent things I've ever smelled. It permeated for miles.

    JOL: I only took the main course, and that was in 2003. As per pr0gr4m's experience, I know my attending was instrumental in landing me my internship. The staff is generally very helpful to graduates and will take time to put in a good word for you if you request it.

    You'll learn a bunch at RW -- with classes and projects 14 hours a day, it's hard not to. However, my main concerns are as follows:

    * The program as a whole felt rushed. Being there was like a whirlwind.
    * Not enough time or roaming freedom to hang out in the studios and around the equipment.
    * The technology felt a little dated: older microphones, older techniques, recording and editing with nonvisual media, et al.
    * Logistically, for $3,000, the money might have been better put to use buying quality gear and devoting time to experimenting and researching forums such as this one.

    A main benefit is that you'll have a fairly reputable program backing for you after graduation; also, as someone who was fairly ignorant about recording arts when I went up there, I felt a sense at the end that a life in that field was closer within my reach. Definitely a great starting place.
  7. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    Oh, I did a gospel remote in Charleston South Carolina. When I drove into town I thought I was going to puke! But I had to deal with that smell for three days. And all they kept on singing was how they got saved while I was choking to death in my remote truck! No wonder we're using our computers so much these days. Yuck!

    Gag me with a spoon
    Remy Ann David
  8. Thomas W. Bethel

    Thomas W. Bethel Well-Known Member

    I have had three graduates of the Recording Workshop apply for jobs here at Acoustik Musik. I have to say that I was underwhelmed at their general lack of knowledge. In one case the graduate told me he knew all about tape deck maintenance so I gave him the manual for our Otari MTR-10 an alignment tape, some fresh tape stock and an oscillator and told him to align the machine. He looked really scared and started sweating. Turns out that his "experience" was all from books and watching someone else do the maintenance and he had never touched a tape deck. So much for knowing "all about tape deck maintenance". One of the other graduates told me that he was never allowed to mix down what he had recorded and only mixed down some "standard" tracks that everyone else was required to do. If you can't take a recording project from beginning to end I wonder what the school is really trying to teach their graduates.

    I know with most of these programs you get out of them what you put in and maybe the three people I had applying for jobs were not the norm for the graduates of the Recording Workshop but all three of them seemed to have the same problem.

    I guess you get what you pay for and how involved you are in what is being presented.
  9. thedino

    thedino Guest

    i am a graduate of this school and i did all the programs there and like people have been saying its all what you put into the program you do get plenty of time to mix and be in the studio and you can do entire projects from start to finish you the student have the choice to decide if you only want to work on certain mixes and yes it is a blur and goes by so fast but you get a taste of everything from signal flow to game audio the staff is very knowledgable they are very outgoing with helping you out in the studio if you need and will make one on one time with you if needed the equipment there is of good quality but of course some things are better than others all the studios are different there not everything has the same exact gear in it but they try to give a general learning curve with trying out a whole lot of equipment but a really good thing about this place is there is nothing to do there in chillicothe, ohio so really all you do is focus on learning and thats about it. i wish the advanced programs were alot longer especially the studio maintenance troubleshooting course which was only a week long and basically it was a crash course in that area i mean you did get hands on but not enough to have it stick in your head
    but all in all its a good school you will learn alot but there will always be new things to learn in the recording business i hope this helped you make some sort of decision
  10. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    So you missed the day when they discussed putting periods at the end of sentences and capital letters at the beginning. Were you with my son that day?
  11. TVPostSound

    TVPostSound Guest

    No Bob, that's one long sentence. I tried to read that in one breath, and nearly choked.
  12. Thomas W. Bethel

    Thomas W. Bethel Well-Known Member

    One of my interns does that all the time. He never capitalized the beginning of sentences and NO punctuation at all. I guess he is from the "text messaging" generation. He also writes a lot of his notes in text messaging shorthand and I need to have him translate them for me.

    Typical message.

    Bill cld wnts 2 hv din w u nxt wk - which translates into Bill called and wants to have dinner with you next week. I can see it as a way of saving time and key strokes on a cell phone but ?????? on a phone message pad?

    I can see my High School English teacher rolling over in her grave.

    Someone call the Guinness World Records I think this maybe the longest sentence in the English language - no wait here is some additional information off the WWW

    Jonathan Coe's new novel - The Rotters' Club - contains a sentence of 13,955 words.

    We believe that this is the longest single sentence in the English language, easily outstripping Molly's soliloquy at the end of Ulysses.

    According to Dr Lucia Boldrini, Lecturer in English Literature at Goldsmiths College, London, the longest of the eight sentences in Molly's monologue is 4,391 words.

    Coe had no knowledge of this - he thought Joyce still held the record - and was, er, delighted to find out.
  13. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    William Faulkner call your office.
  14. thedino

    thedino Guest

    Sorry you could not appreciate my input on a subject that somebody was trying to get serious information about. I guess just continue to pollute this post with immature discussions about my grammar.
  15. JoeH

    JoeH Well-Known Member

    No dino, the problem wasn't that we couldn't APPRECIATE your input, it was UNREADABLE OK???? The fact that someone even let you INTO their school - ANY SCHOOL - with such poor writing skills is frightening in and of itself. (I guess the prerequisite for this school in question is just CASH, eh?)

    If you can't properly punctuate a couple of declarative, descriptive & narrative sentences, then yep: I don't WANT your opinion. This is a forum where communication is key. And unless I missed a memo somewhere, the language of choice here is STANDARD ENGLISH, with standard punctuation rules in place. (Not bashing anyone from non-English speaking countries, just pointing out that one common language is the easiest mode of communication.)

    Ignoring the rules of communication in written language in this business is just as moronic and potentially dangerous as ignoring the rules of good grounding, good mic placement, good tuning, and good mixing skills.

    Your poor writing skill SCREAMS to the world you have never cracked a book, never read a manual, never had to properly document a session, and never had to communicate with an important client in writing. I shudder to think what you'd do with something as basic as a client's CD label or packaging materials. (Frankly, I'd never let you NEAR a client in my world.)

    You ARE correct about two things, though: I do NOT want your opinions (when written the pitiful way you did), and you ARE polluting the forum.
  16. Come on. Dino's post was irritating for sure, but not "unreadable" by any stretch. He did offer valuable input for the questioner, were he or she inclined to decipher it.

    JoeH: Recording Workshop didn't have any prerequisities or entrance requirements. However, the course material demanded a cursory understanding of audio engineering, which is why students without prior experience (future rap producers) dropped pretty early.
  17. JoeH

    JoeH Well-Known Member

    Nope, I ain't buyin' it. I wouldn't have said a thing except this guy decided to defend his own ignorance. What he REALLY ought to be is embarrassed. There's plenty of folks out there from other countries where English isn't their first language who do a MUCH better job of expressing themselves.

    Learn to punctuate, spell and toss in an occasional paragraph break once in a while so folks can understand what is being offered. That post was/is unreadable in its present form.

    It's a slippery slope when we allow ignorance and stupidity to leak into this place and act like it's ok. There's a lot of people who work very hard to respond to posts in an intelligent, thoughtful manner. If you can't read what's being posted, you can't help someone.

    Look, you can be as lame as you want on your own time, I really don't care. Text your friends, play Guitar Hero I & II, watch clips on YouTube all day long; go nuts.

    Just don't post gibberish here; not if you want to be taken seriously. This business is no different than any other; if you can't read or write properly, there are plenty of others who CAN and will run you off the road and steal your lunch, trust me on that.

    We're long past the days when someone could walk in and wing it with just their wits and bluff their way to a career. There's no skipping class in this biz now. You MUST read manuals, you MUST read updates, software info, etc., and you MUST communicate effectively.

    If the guy can't string three coherent paragraphs together; I doubt he's got anything important to tell me.

    Unless you're Odgen Nash (or Remy Rad!), you just have to do a LOT better than that.
  18. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member


    :lol: :lol:

    Good one!
  19. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Joe, I gotta say I agree 100% - Partially because my father was a grade school teacher, and also due to the fact that I cannot tolerate such grammatical mistakes myself.

    I labor long and hard when I post (a few seconds usually) to make sure I have gotten my point across in a clear, concise manner.

    I preview everything I do, proofread every sentence, and often delete whole paragraphs if I feel they do not mesh with the overall idea I'm trying to convey; I do the same at my 9 to 5.

    Sadly, there are a large number of folks out there that simply cannot take the time to punctuate - much less spell check - their writing; This includes many in management at WDW - How do you get promoted into a managerial position in one of the largest entertainment companies in the friggin' world if you cannot spell (or at least type a semi-coherent sentence) correctly???

    I digress.

    I haven't read the "questionable" post in it's entirety, it was just too confusing from the start...

    Sorry, gents... I'm just not gonna bother with it.
  20. StevenRobert

    StevenRobert Guest

    From A Current Student's Perspective

    I was surfing through the Net a little while ago looking for forums discussing the school that I currently attend. Before my time here at RecW I definitely did my homework, seeing as how I discovered this institution through a fan of my Nine Inch Nails remix page (who himself is a graduate) and I made the decision to come here and act as if I knew nothing, ready to take in the education available to me. And let me tell you what, this place blew me away.

    I should warn you; I have stuck to the authenticity of the teaching styles here and have presented to you my opinion as to how I feel about RecW while staying true to the way one would hear it in one of the lectures, without totally giving it away for the people who haven't paid to come to this school yet. In order to have that full experience that I believe only a place as unique as this facility can provide someone with my overactive personality, a sense of "What's this place gonna be like?" should run through the minds of prospective students. This school can change a potential engineer's life, as it has for me. And I'm just finishing Week 1. How cool is that?

    So I decided to sit here during my Sunday afternoon of tedious studying to analyze the people who have thus far given me a lecture, and allow me to rate them in this fashion:


    These four factors seem to link well in helping me decide whether or not the person giving you a lecture on whatever topic is super-overtly expert on whatever they are giving you and whether or not you feel satisfied once you walk out the door to the next class, notes in hand and mind at the stake. As I go on describing who I've had give me a lecture thus far I will rate them accordingly in a 1 to 10 system, one being far to the unpractical level and 10 flashing "extra-special".

    Here we go!

    JEFF LING : C = 9 K = 10 P = 8 I = 10

    This guy has got to be one of the funniest instructors I've ever had in my entire lifetime. Attending a lecture by Jeff Ling is like watching George Carlin talk about audio, if all he did was talk about nothing but audio. And talk he will. If you can't keep up with Seeenyour Ling (we'll call him Jeff, he likes that anyways) then it would be advisable to bring a tape/digi recorder and hit record as you start the actual pencil note taking. Otherwise I guarantee you will be lost if you don't pay attention to what the man is saying.

    When Jeff Ling talks about something, you're forced to listen not because of lack of willpower but due to the fact that you can't help but be captivated by what the ^#$% he's saying. I don't care how boring someone might think equalization is, I'll listen to him talk about it and I will enjoy it too. One of his coolest tangents was on the first day when he went over signal flow for the first time. He had asked the class how the length of a wave could be calculated and no one said anything. I couldn't either because I had remembered reading it in the book but I couldn't remember what the ^#$% it was. Finally it popped into my 3-second behind brain and I spit out "WAVELENGTH equals VELOCITY over FREQUENCY!!" There was a pause for a second and he says, "Well sooooooooomeone gets a point for reading the fuckin' book." The class bursts into an uproar of hilarity because intrue form he delivers almost what would be a comedic stand up performance whilst educating the masses of students at the good ol' RecW about audio. If a student thinks he or she can remain in a lecture of Jeff Ling's and not expect to get called out on his reading assignment then something else is coming for you.

    Now if you're a student who happens to not be used to someone using unconventional education methods, then please take into mind that one of Jeff Ling's lectures should have a parental advisory tag on them.
    That also leaves interpretation to the beholder. I happen to think this man knows a hell of a lot about audio and I've soaked a ton of information from him. In his lectures I learn way more then I expect to and I hope to study further with him and if I get lucky enough, be an assistant engineer to him when the need arises. But if you go into his lectures thinking you're getting just a good laugh then you are a sad thinker. He will rape your mind of what it knew of audio and replace it with a knowledge that is overpowering and if utilized will ensure your success in the studio classes. And that makes his lectures bombshizzel.

    Bottom line, a student is guaranteed to learn in one of his lectures if they simply pay attention.

    DAN TECKENBROCK : C = 10, K = 10, P = 9, I = 9

    Dan told a joke in class once about a helicopter and a cow with Mad Cow and I still don't get it, but the man comes into class on point and delivers a lecture that will blow your mind away if you're not ready for a lecture of his intellect and saturated-themed education. Wanna talk about a guy who is detail oriented to the max? You've got to be an Olympic note-taker to be able to both take notes and pay attention to what he is saying when the lecture is being delivered. A tape/digi recorder is *NECESSARY* when this gentleman's time is being used to educate the masses.

    And lecture he will. Be sure you take care of the bathroom and food thing before his class, because if you miss a second of his lecture it's like missing a scene in Fear and Loathing. Just sucks since you can't understand what is happening now since you missed what just happened five minutes ago. Dan will give you a lot, a lot, AA LLLOOOOOOTTTTTT of information about audio and it is absolutely crucial that not only every word he speaks needs to soak in that thick skull, the need for alertness and quick note-taking is a necessity. A diagram will pop up on the PowerBook presentation and as soon as he clicks that little hand-thingee to change the slide (he is the MASTER of the controller, it's like his light saber) something else will pop up and you're like, "What the ^#$%?". Had you been on the ball, his point would have came across and instead of What the ^#$%? it's now, "Oh yeah, I get it now!"

    It's a good thing that RecW has Dan Teckenbrock available to the students in full capacity and he makes sure his time is well utilized to educate our hungry minds. An up and coming audio engineer is guaranteed to have signal flow mastered after experiencing a full week of nothing but signal flow, signal flow, signal flow, signal flow, signal flow, signal flow, signal flow, you get the point. He will drill his point into your head and you have to saturate your brain with his teachings because yes, they will save your ass in the studio. As I learned from him basic signal flow knowledge will help any intelligent engineer fix any major catastrophe from "Why the ^#$% am I not getting any signal?!" to "Ohhhh, it would help if the guitarist turned up his ^#$%ing guitar amp."

    If you're not ready to be educated from a completely ten-sided equation then you may not be ready to attend one of his lectures. There is alot of material to learn and yes, he will teach you. But education is a two way street. The knowledge is presented to the student in such a manner that if you're not any kind of serious student the educational value and amount of his knowledge seems almost unretainable. Because I paid attention in his class I've learned enough to save my ass in the studio part of the classes. And that's saying something, believe me.

    And as I said about Mr Ling, a student is guaranteed to learn in one of Dan's lectures if they simply pay attention.

    BRIAN MUTH : C = 10, K = 10, P = 8, I = 10

    Be warned now; NEVER PUT YOUR BOOKS AWAY IN BRIAN MUTH'S LECTURES. His class time is almost guaranteed to run over the traditional 1 1/2 hour time limit and if it does, ^#$%ing deal with it. Besides, there's a lot to learn from this guy. He generally doesn't give a lecture until the end of Week 1, but I'll tell you what; it's definitely worth the wait.

    If you learn anything from his lectures it should be the two main rules of working in this business; 1. Shut the ^#$% up, and 2. SHUT THE ^#$% UP.
    I'm not kidding, he will actually tell you that following these two rules will save any engineer's ass. Truth be told it doesn't matter if you have an ear or not, or even if you know what you're doing. (For the record, ^#$% that, I have an ear of gold and I know what's up.) What matters is that you are there to please the artist. That's it. You are now their bitch. And here's how you think about it in what I now like to call "Muthinism".

    When a band comes into your studio and books a month of time with you and you're making $6,000 from this for doing something you love, of course you're going to buy them ^#$%ing lunch.
    You'll cater to their every whim. They don't give a ^#$% about you, all they care about is that they are the client and need a product, in its simplest terms. Since you are the one guy they trust to make sure said product comes to completion, wouldn't it make sense to make them as comfortable as possible? Wouldn't you want to direct most of the conversation towards them telling you about them rather then you telling them about you? Remember the mantra... They don't give a ^#$% about you! All they want is the product, that album of theirs you are engineering. And as Brian put it, I would rather be the guy that made them feel like a million bucks when they recorded with me and gave them a great sounding album that only tanked because their songs weren't the greatest in the world, rather then be that guy who was "the dick" who ^#$%ed up their album. Yes, they will blame you if you're a dick. Everything should and needs to be focused on the client, remember they are paying your bills.

    He even called me out on something that I at first when said sounded so innocent, but I soon realized the one thing that everyone needs to commit to memory: In space, no one can hear you scream, but everywhere else, someone can ^#$%ing hear you. And chances are that if you say something that crashes someone's day, it will crash yours too. Like when I said when I first got into class, "Man I hope the bands I record are good." Why the hell did I say that? Instead during the end of the lecture he brought it up and made the very valid point that without these shitty bands we wouldn't have a paycheck, so if they came along remember to apply the same techniques to them as you would a diva. You are their bitch. Give them what they want and do it like you're the ^#$%ing best at it in the world. And when you sit back and give the client some playback and they are that excited about it, it makes your job 600% cooler to ride through. Plus, it makes that paycheck they hand you worth so much more as you walk to the bank, whistling in the air.

    All in all, as I stated before and I am sure that this will apply to every instructor who gives a lecture here, a student is guaranteed to learn in one of his lectures if they simply pay attention.

    Hopefully this helps any perspective student coming to RecW in deciding what they really want to do and if audio engineering is something they really feel passionate about, or do they just find it "interesting". Personally there's a few kids that Daddy and Mommy paid for to be here and they are in effect screwing it up for people who want to because they do not pay attention in lectures. God forbid one of these kids gets in front of an MCI 600 and doesn't know how to send out signal to the cue mix. Oh wait, that happened to one kid here already on our team. And yes, he was told off by the instructor in quick manner. Basically if you sit in the back of the class and screw off, don't pay attention and keep daydreaming about only God knows what, of course you won't know your asshole from an elbow. I think he was told in those words, more or less.

    If that's one piece of advice I as a new student to RecW can offer, it's this; if you're not passionate about audio and you are not ready to be subjected to a saturation/repetitive style of education that some would say is unorthodox, then please don't come here. You'll ruin it for the ones who actually give a damn about their career.

    Thanks for giving me a place to post my opinions!


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