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Glue

Discussion in 'Recording' started by CFS, Oct 10, 2001.

  1. CFS

    CFS Guest

    I dont think I have seen it covered here yet so I figured i would post about it. So latly I have been getting a ton of "fixer upper" projects where I come into either mix or track vocals/the stuff the guy before me screwed up. I know a ton of techniques for getting glue in a mix but they arent working well enough for me to get the results I want anymore. This stuff is recorded bad but i know I can still do better. I sometimes have to do these as mixes done all in Pro Tools which throws out things like putting a compressor on a send to add some glue. I am running out of ideas here anyone got any?
     
  2. miketholen

    miketholen Member

    are you mixing on a console? or DAW?
    if DAW I would definatly split out to a console.
    what are you mixing to?
    other than the obvious, you'll just have to keep ^#$%ing with it till it gives it up. It'll happen.
    oh yeah, mixing to tape works wonders. :D
     
  3. CFS

    CFS Guest

    Budget/circumstances Permitting I go out to a console. I ALWAYS go to a Studer 1/2" no matter what.
     
  4. You need to read in your Pro Tools manual a little further. There is an entire section that deals with how to compensate for DSP induced delays. (Have you ever noticed that Time Adjuster plug in? Now you know what it is for.) This means that you can add a compressor on an aux. I do it all the time. I really understand the problem you are encountering because I rely on paralell compression to provide the some of the "glue" to my mixes as well. Learning how to do this in Pro Tools will greatly improve the viability of an all Pro Tools mix. Good luck!
     
  5. CFS

    CFS Guest

    I use time adjuster all the time I will say that if you can tell me how i can for example send an Aux send of maybe 20 out of 24 tracks to a compressor and keep the phase ill be amased. I do things like copying a track with the same audio file and doing a compressed and uncompressed version often.
     
  6. drumsound

    drumsound Active Member

    Why not a good bus compressor right before the Studer? I just bought a Drawmer 1969 for 2-mix glue. It's working quite nice.
     
  7. The answer is fairly simple. Let's say you want to send all of your drum tracks to an aux with extra compression. Here is what you do:

    -Start by changing all of your drum tracks outputs to bus 1-2.

    -Now create two stereo auxes with the inputs on both auxes set to bus 1-2.

    -Put the compressor on aux one and time-adjust aux two to match the delay created by the compressor on aux one.

    Now you can blend the two together without phase problems. I do this almost every day and it does work. Even if you send 20 or more tracks to the auxes. Amazing!
     
  8. CFS

    CFS Guest

    I am actually really not into 2 Mix compression maybe a DB at most I have Compex/pendulum varimu/LALA Limiter if Ineeded it on the 2-bus.
     
  9. This is a hard one to expain in type, but I will give it another shot. What I am explaining is paralell auxillary compression. One aux allows the signal to pass uncompressed to the mix bus, while the other aux compresses the signal in paralell and sends it to the mix bus as well, so that you can blend the two together. The time adjuster allows you to delay the uncompressed signal so that it blends perfectly in phase with the compressed signal. That is the what you were asking for in your original post, is it not?

    Please read the manual and give it a shot. If I have totally missed the point of your question, feel free to set me straight. I am confident that with the info in the manual and the technique I described previously, you will be able to achieve the results you wanted.
     
  10. CFS

    CFS Guest

    Lord Alvin you gave me exactly what I want. I do auxillary compression in nearly all my analog mixes. I was referring to the suggestion to use a 1969 as a 2 Mix Comp.
     
  11. Mixerman

    Mixerman Active Member

    Originally posted by CFS:
    I dont think I have seen it covered here yet so I figured i would post about it. So latly I have been getting a ton of "fixer upper" projects where I come into either mix or track vocals/the stuff the guy before me screwed up. I know a ton of techniques for getting glue in a mix but they arent working well enough for me to get the results I want anymore. This stuff is recorded bad but i know I can still do better. I sometimes have to do these as mixes done all in Pro Tools which throws out things like putting a compressor on a send to add some glue. I am running out of ideas here anyone got any?
     
  12. Mixerman

    Mixerman Active Member

    Originally posted by CFS:
    I dont think I have seen it covered here yet so I figured i would post about it. So latly I have been getting a ton of "fixer upper" projects where I come into either mix or track vocals/the stuff the guy before me screwed up. I know a ton of techniques for getting glue in a mix but they arent working well enough for me to get the results I want anymore. This stuff is recorded bad but i know I can still do better. I sometimes have to do these as mixes done all in Pro Tools which throws out things like putting a compressor on a send to add some glue. I am running out of ideas here anyone got any?

    Sometimes reamping some things into a medium to large room will glue a track together. Often times things that are recorded badly, are also recorded in a bad sounding room. If you have a good sounding room (or access to one), don't be afraid to pump some things like drums out there record the chamber.

    Tape hiss or line noise added to the track, (don't skimp) can glue a track together nicely.

    Compressing the 2-bus can help glue things together. 1db @ a ratio of 4 to 1 isn't allot of compression. You could probably hit it a little harder, and have a more congealed result. Just make sure you're monitoring the compression.

    Mixerman
     
  13. Cool CFS! I am glad it worked.

    You can do a variation of the same trick using aux sends to one aux and by busing to the other. The only trouble with doing it this way is that you have to account for the different delays caused by routing through the aux and the bus. The advantge is that you can choose what you are sending to the compressed aux and you can vary those levels.

    Digidesign really needs to incorporate some kind of automatic delay compensation so we don't have to worry about this stuff any longer. What a pain in the butt.
     
  14. mixfactory

    mixfactory Guest

    You never mentioned in the post what style of music was it. Since we can't hear it its hard to make a specific suggestion on how to approach it. I get a lot of mixing gigs where the original tracks are either mangled,distorted or down right trash, so maybe with a little specifics I can throw out some ideas.
     
  15. CFS

    CFS Guest

    Its never really one type of music I do a ton of rock but I also do a good amount of hp hop though I will say i do a lot of indie rock retro 70s stuff these days.
     
  16. Jay Hudson

    Jay Hudson Guest

    I like the Roland Dimension D and the Line 6 Modulation Box is cool.
    A Hammond B-3 is the best glue.
    For cheap mixdown you might try a cassette or the audio portion of a VHS Hi-Fi.
     

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