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Good gear

Discussion in 'Recording' started by McKinnon, Mar 5, 2011.

  1. McKinnon

    McKinnon Active Member

    Heyy guys im new here, but im in need of some help, and the forums are a great place to start! i have an old multitrack recorder which is awesome for laying stuff down just to remember them, but i need the real deal now, i have mics and stuff, but what do i need to basically have myself a studio set up, as in pro tools mixer etc. what are somethings i need to look for, and where do i start? im looking to set it up all right, so price of course an issue now a days, im not in any rush, so if you guys could give me some ideas on the equipment id need to start, brands models, etc. so far im nuder the impression im gonna need:
    a new computer for all this
    protools or something equivalent
    and thats all? i dont really know guys help me out, im not looking to spend millions but i want really decent gear soo any suggstions, help?
  2. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    I'm just curious. As your first post on this board you wrote 170 words, about 20 of which are misspelled. You are asking for advice on how to spend several thousand dollars. (We have no idea how many thousands of dollars since the only idea of a budget is that you are "not looking to spend millions.") In addition to budget, we have no idea of your experience, your musical interests, your recording space. You say you have "mics and stuff" but we have no idea what mics and what..uh...stuff.

    So my basic question is: are you really planning to spend money based on the response you get to this post?
  3. McKinnon

    McKinnon Active Member

    alright sorry its a big deal, im not the best speller on the computer but no im looking to spend money on whatever is going to get me a good efficient setup so i can record and edit and sound good i basically have nothing besides mics and mic cords. and an old multitrack recorder.

    i need a setup thats well rounded, i play more rock music then anything, but stuff changes, so i have no idea where to start, thats why i was on here, like i said im doing this over the course of the year, not all at once, so im not looking for crappy equipment, i want stuff that i can make legit albums on and sound good. thats all. whatever you suggest to look into from there ill look into, idk what i am looking at when i look at a mixer or protools descrpition, not one clue, so i came here so maybe someone could put me in the right direction.

    i figured someone could help me out, but it seems you are to worried with how i spelled things and how many words i wrote. if you dont want to help me out then sorry to bother you ill go somewhere else.
  4. natural

    natural Active Member

    Let's start out by finding out exactly what you do have.
    If you have a multitrack recorder, then I'm assuming that you have everything outside of a DAW?
    IOW- you have monitors, a console with mic inputs, some outboard processors (reverb, maybe a mic pre etc) enough cables and maybe a patchbay to wire everything together? (we really need your complete list because our mindreading powers suck on this site)
    If so, then all you need is a computer, software and and interface (probably)
    - Computers come in 2 flavors - Mac and non-mac
    - Software- the most popular are probably Protools, Logic, and Cubase.
    - Interface. This is what will take your line inputs from your mixer, Mic Pres, and/or synths, and send them into and out of the computer.

    As to exactly which Computer, software, and interface is right for you will depend on what type of material you are recording (live bands? just you? drum machine and voc? etc) and what your budget is. Let's use $7000.00 as a pivot point. If your budget is less than 7K we will move in one direction - Over 7K and we may recommend another direction.
    If you have over 15K at your disposal, we can move to another tier as well.

    If you hang out here long enough you'll see why BobRogers asked the questions that he asked. (his mind reading powers are better than some, but still limited to 21st century technology)
  5. McKinnon

    McKinnon Active Member

    Yeah im on forums a lot but drum forums and i know about drums which is why im a drummer, i know those are stupid question to you guys, but i have no freaking clue on where to start. basically all i have is mics okay, thats it, i am recording in a "studio" no live stuff, recording a full like 5 piece band, under 7K uhhhm yeah, idk what else to say, non mac computer, idk anytrhing about the softwares or the interfaces, so any info there would help
  6. Big K

    Big K Well-Known Member

    And you want to record them all together with about 16 Mic inputs (they come mostly in 8s ) and 8 line inputs....

    Let's see:

    Computer I/O
    RME HDSPE RAYDAT - Thomann UK Cyberstore

    2 x pre amps - good for both - line and mic input
    RME OCTAMIC II - Thomann UK Cyberstore

    1x RME ADI line in / out
    RME ADI 8 DS - Thomann UK Cyberstore

    1x Intel PC i7, 6 GB Ram, 2 x 1 TB Harddrives, OS: Win7, DualHead graphic card, 2 video monitors > 20",
    DAW software: Cubase 6, UAD plugins, no console

    Monitoring: Presonus Central Station with remote
    PRESONUS CENTRAL STATION - Thomann UK Cyberstore

    Genelecs 8050
    GENELEC 8050APM - Thomann UK Cyberstore

    If your budget can deal with that and you have some cash left for decent room treatment and mics, headphones, cables, stands... you've got yourself a studio.
  7. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    McKinnon - See, here's the thing. I don't really care that you don't use spell check or that you type im instead of I'm. I care that you are too lazy to do those things. I care that you are too lazy to fill out your profile so we know what continent you live on. I care that you are too lazy to look at the archives to get even a ballpark estimate of what a system can cost so that you can give even the most general idea of a budget. But what I really care about is that Big K took the time to spec out a really nice weekend warrior/semi pro level studio based on the information you gave but that we are now going to have to play twenty questions to get to something that will really work for you.
  8. Big K

    Big K Well-Known Member

    He is a Drummer... gross motor skills.... his ears?

    Btw, this outfit I collected, ... I copied it from another thread with same questions I answered ...lol..
    but with those gadgets, only his skill level should be the limit for quite a while.
    A gifted engineer can produce a Grammy Award winning production on it... Let's see, what you come up with, McK..
  9. McKinnon

    McKinnon Active Member

    okay man all i need is some help, like i said if im bothering you ill go somewhere else, and thank you Big K thats all i need somewhere to start, if thats good stuff then i can look around and compare with other stuff to sompare prices and what they offer, you know what i mean man? its pretty ridiculous that your a moderator and you gotta be so rude. all i need is some help thats all. Im from the U.S. btw not that it matters
  10. McKinnon

    McKinnon Active Member

    thanks thats all i need, i can learn anything, i just need to know what is worth learning on, youknow? are there any sites that sell that stuff for the states?
  11. Big K

    Big K Well-Known Member

    I know, ..
    All those items are availlable in many stores all over the world.
    Now, please, look them up yourself. Easy to find. Inform yourself about driver stability and reliably support, as well.

    Are we being rude? Here, in Munich I am considered a rather civilized and respected man.
    Rude would be to say that you suck big time and that you are very unpolite to not even care a bag of beans how you write in this
    world-wide most reputable forum. Even I do try to get my orthography as correct as possible and I occasionally wear Bavarian Lederhosen...
    There's only one chance to make a good first impression. Sayings, ey?

    Aaanyway, I wish you luck and more diligence with your studio and your studies.
    No pain, no brain...or so...
  12. McKinnon

    McKinnon Active Member

  13. Big K

    Big K Well-Known Member

    24 bit to 32 bit float is good standart. Samplerates up to 96 kHz is sufficient for you ( and me), more doesn't hurt.
    Many DAWs and I/Os have that. It is more important to look at the feature sets and support. I would not go the Protools way, though.
    Their native software is still not uptodate and the dedicated hardware version is just too expensive and restricting ( Mac).
    DAW software should be like a good fitting glove... and it is hard to change to a new one after you've learned how to work with it.
    Buying a cheaper DAW to safe a few bucks, but missing features, sets you back for months when you want to change to a better DAW, later.
  14. McKinnon

    McKinnon Active Member

    awesome man you are a huge help, this is all so confusing though i have no clue really what it all does, is what you sent me before everything that id need besides mics? i just want a clear picture of everything id need, you know what i mean?
    Like is this sufficient software right here?
    PreSonus Studio One Pro DAW Software#
    and then id install this on my computer? RME HDSPE RAYDAT - Thomann UK Cyberstore
    and put these two in a rack which im not sure what they do yet really
    RME ADI 8 DS - Thomann UK Cyberstore
    PRESONUS CENTRAL STATION - Thomann UK Cyberstore
    and i have monitors already, so if i bought that stuff or something similar to that stuff, id be set to record a good album?
  15. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    I'm watching this with interest. And here's some points which might be some of the stickiness its turning towards.....McKinnon says he's RECORDING to a tape machine, but all he has are mics and cords........OK. Its really hard to record to ANYTHING without some sort of input device....like a mixer or at least something in the front end of the recorder that turns the mic signals into voltages the machine heads can interpret....THIS is why you have been asked questions about What Gear You Already Have. But you dont want to tell us.....AND YOU want someone to walk you through a complete set-up to achieve ALBUM QUALITY results. You give a general budget number which is still vague, and then you recoil when you assume that people are bothered to answer your posts.

    If this was true NO ONE would have answered at all. Neither of the posters are the sort of people who would spend a moment of their energy to hammer someone on this forum simply because they're bored with life. This is your assumption.

    Realize for a moment that there are 1000's of choices to achieve what you state you're looking for, and finding out what your needs are by incorporating gear you already own or have access to is a simple exchange of information. Which you dont seem to want to do. But you want a place to start.

    Okay. What skills at recording do you have? You've already said you have been recording to tape. And you have indicated that you're doing this with only a tape machine and some mics and cords. You must be a wizard! I've been doing this for 30 years and I STILL need a mixer of some sort to do this....except a very few recorders with built-in mixers....

    Since you already have mics and cords, we can only assume that you dont NEED any more of these. You dont want us to know WHAT mics and cords you have so maybe this a stealth studio we're talking about.

    So the starting place doesnt require mics...........Y/N........

    Do you see the problem yet? Am I being rude?

    The rudeness is coming from you. People are really trying to help. To evaluate needs and to establish a good starting point, certain information is needed. Just like if I was a contractor and I was coming to your house, at your request, to give you an estimate of a project you wanted to undertake to upgrade your kitchen. I would need to know several items of detail in order to serve your needs and wants.

    This is no different. These people arent being paid to share their wealth of knowledge and you arent owed anything simply by signing up at the door. Its always helpful to know what area a person is from as well as knowing what they know as far as basics and what they have as far as gear.

    Its really a simple exchange of information that makes things go easier and nets you the answers to your questions. For free.

    Or you could assume that everyone is rude simply because they are asking direct questions in seeking this info and you could 'threaten' to go elsewhere like a child because you dont want to answer things you think arent important. But, if you really knew what was important and what wasnt you wouldnt be on here asking these questions in the first place.

    So you either want to learn something or you dont. You can certainly google recording interfaces, recording systems, recording gear, recording etc etc etc and find what you want. Chances are these will all lead you back here....
  16. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Perhaps a good book on recording is what you should read before you spend any money......And recording a GOOD ALBUM is simply a matter of GOOD MATERIAL and GOOD TALENT. The gear has only a small effect on this.
  17. Big K

    Big K Well-Known Member

    Quote McK:
    and i have monitors already, so if i bought that stuff or something similar to that stuff, id be set to record a good album?


    Quit so, but you need microphone pre amps like the octamic I linked above.
    The ADI is line level I/Os, only. You can't connect Mics to it.

    Studio one is a nice software, too, but I prefer Cubase since I use Nuendo 5 from the same company.
    Look at Cubase artist version, cheaper and upgradeable.
    Feature Comparison*:**|*http://www.steinberg.net/

    We gladly answer your questions, but you will not get around studying the trade intensively, yourself. Ask a studio guy in your area to get you started.
    Otherwise this is a never ending story with small chances of success...
    Placing the devices is the easiest part of it all. Getting it all to work and learning about the softwares and engineering trade is what you need to be doing.
  18. GZsound

    GZsound Active Member

    Interesting thread.

    It seems to me that it is impossible to suggest anything to anyone without complete specifics regarding their needs. For example, if someone has mics and cables and wants to record "quality" tracks, an inexpensive first step could be one of the stand alone units from Roland, Zoom, Tascam, etc. where all he needs to do is plug in his mics, arm tracks and hit "record".

    After that suggestion the world opens up to how many simultaneous tracks, what budget for an interface, what budget for a computer, does it have to be Pro Tools, what about a mixer for front end, how about a mixer/interface combination like a Firewire or USB mixer....?

    Just a lot of variables and a lot of equipment available today that requires more than simply asking a broad generic question on a forum and expecting specifics.

    I'm surprised anyone answered with specifics given such limited parameters in the question. Pretty helpful bunch around here..
  19. McKinnon

    McKinnon Active Member

    Yes davedog, i have one of those with the buil;t in mixer, i dont have a mixer, its a roland 16 track, recorder that burns cds, its an all in one, you know what im saying? the mics go right into it and record them there, so i dont need a mixer.

    Big K, ive tried interning in studios, but there arent any big name ones around here, just people like me trying to get stuff together. i wish i could go into a studio and see how everything works but i dont have the chance, you know what im saying?

    And i really dont know what is so limited about what im saying, all i have are mics, idk what else you want me to say really, because thats all i have, idk what they are, but w/e they record.

    I am sorry that im giving you guys a problem, but i have no way else of learning this stuff, you know what im saying? I have no clue at all where to start so i came here, im sorry my posts havent been helpful to you guys to help me, i just dont know what else to say.
  20. Jeemy

    Jeemy Well-Known Member

    'Quality' is always subjective and unfortunately people coming here don't actually consider that to get 'quality' results, the input might actually be quite major in terms of both sheer dollar value, time expended in learning and prepping, and most importantly and most neglected, physical location with respect to audio treatment, positioning and actually finding a space which can be made to sound good, or neutral.

    McK, if you are still reading, I'll say this to you.

    A few weeks back a guy came on here and (no offence) was much more well-written and well-spoken than you and seemed to seriously have a $3,000 budget (together with some existing equipment) and want to go on to bigger things. I outlined to the ****ing dollar every piece of equipment to buy, and Dave told him how to set it up. We've never seen a single thing back from him (though I hope its cos he is busy getting set up!). Multiply this by 365 days in the year, and please understand why we all get so frustrated when people like you come on here with a lack of info, and then get butthurt when we don't answer your questions.

    Firstly, I told the guy this: with regards to quality (and lets say your multitrack tape recorder is a D or E) I think you can do C on $3k, B on $25k, A- on $50K, A $150K, A+ $300K).

    Secondly, the full kit list I gave him was here: http://recording.org/home-recording...ookie-would-appreciate-advise.html#post359914

    Thirdly, this stuff is a lot more complex than you think. Give us the same respect we are giving you, and just take a step back to consider for a second how you perceive a 'proper', 'quality' recording studio. Understand that its not actually going to be that simple, it must take a lot of time, unless you are getting 3-4 bands through the doors a week you will probably go bankrupt, and that it must be expensive to set up and install, and then re-think the response you are getting from people here.

    They are all prepared to help. They are all very experienced, and unlike other forums, people will offer their viewpoint based on their experience, but not showboat here. What you get is always going to be useful, within reason.

    But things like budget, experience, the physical space you have to work in, computers, cables, etc etc are all very very important if you want to get a good setup, and good results, on a budget. At the budget level every decision has to be thought through. A $400 interface with good converters may only be FW800. No good if you don't have a 1394 port.

    We don't want to end up saying 'buy the <cheap><SX4004example> interface' and then you find it doesn't do the crucial thing you need, just cos you didn't tell us that you have a Mac, not a PC.

    Give people the info they need to help you!

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