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Great River mercenary and Avalon 2022

Discussion in 'Pro Audio Equipment' started by Valentin Sosa, Oct 15, 2001.

  1. Hi..
    How does the great river (mersenary edition of course) compares to the Avalon
    2022, or are they just two diferent animals?
    I read a fact written on my avalon 737 (again, mercenary edition of course)manua that caught my attention..it said somethingh like.."the 737 and the 2022 gives you two different flavors,
    netiher is better than the other, it is just a matter of taste, the 2022
    gives you a "tridimentional sound"

    does thekic great river stears more towards the 737 or towards the
    "tridementional" marketing thingh that caught my attention..
    any opinions would be greatly appreciated..
    main uses will be drums (snare and kick) and vocals
    Val
     
  2. Mindsender

    Mindsender Guest

    Val, I had the Avalon 737 and 2022 at the same time and did a/b testing into digital recorder through an Apogee spx100se ad/da. Used piano and drums sequenced so each take would be the same, and also Neuman M149 mike. To my ear the 2022 was much better, airy, open beautiful sound. I thought I wanted no color at all.
    Then I a/b'ed the 2022 with the AMEK channel in a box by Rupert Neve (which also comes with a compressor and beautiful EQ). To my taste, this one knocks it out of the park as a PreAmp alone, regardless of the extras. The sound is slightly flavored just right and more importantly it seems to sit up front in a tightly musical hologram out in front of you. That's the key. For vocals, it seemed to marry the words into musical phrases, instead of leaving them all individual and alone like the 2022 (which is pretty, but not as musical). This is nebulous $*^t, but Fletcher loves this peace as well and sells it. I've had it for a few months now and love it more each day. Good luck Paul (ps also tried the new focusrite re-issue Neve, and it didn't come close)
     
  3. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    Originally posted by Paul Larisey:
    Then I a/b'ed the 2022 with the AMEK channel in a box by Rupert Neve (which also comes with a compressor and beautiful EQ). To my taste, this one knocks it out of the park as a PreAmp alone, regardless of the extras. The sound is slightly flavored just right and more importantly it seems to sit up front in a tightly musical hologram out in front of you.

    When you say "this one knocks it out of the park as a preamp alone" are you saying that you thought the AMEK was superior to the 2022, which was in turn superior to the lower line Avalon? Or that the 2022 was better than the Amek?
     
  4. coldsnow

    coldsnow Active Member

    Most comparisons I have read prefere the 737 to the 2022 for vocals.
    Has anyone else tried the AMEK in comparison to the 737.
     
  5. rivers

    rivers Member

    forget the Avalon..someone tell us about The Great River Nv :D
     
  6. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    OK...the history of the MP-2NV goes something like this...

    A while ago, Dan Kennedy and I were talking about Neve modules, their sound, them being special, yada, yada, yada...so I sent him out a set of schematics and a 1073.

    We talked for a really long time about it, because neither of us wanted the thing to come out like just another Neve knockoff, but it should have some (ok, a lot) of the special qualities found in Neve modules.

    One of my largest complaints with 10 series Neve modules is that if you use them for more than like a dozen things on a project, I find the bottom starts to get a bit "soggy", it seems to lack the 'detail' and 'presence' that the bottom has when you only use a 1073 on a few tracks...the problem being, a 1073 sounds so damn good that often you want to use it on a lot of tracks.

    Dan kinda got what I was driving at, and had some transformers made to try and get to that point. After about a year (and a UPS shipping total that's probably more money than my damn car is worth) we landed on a set of transformers that would allow you to use the pres on pretty much every track you cut if you so desired, but with a bottom end that held tight and defined.

    During one of our conversations, I told Dan a story that Rupert had told over dinner one night. When Air Studio's-London had gotten their 8078-like desk, Geoff Emerick called Rupert one evening and asked him to come down to the studio. It seemed to Geoff that one module sounded better than all the rest in the desk.

    When Rupert got the module back to 'Neve' and they opened it up, apparently someone had neglected to install the loading resistors on the transformers, so they were ringing like a bastard up around 63kHz. Geoff perceived this as added air. So, with this story in hand, we left the transformers unloaded on the MP-2NV, though there is a switch on the front panel should you want to add the loading resistors.

    Speaking of front panel switches, there is a switch on the back of every '10 series Neve' module that changes the impedance of the mic transformer from 300 ohms to 1200 ohms. Being on the back of the module, it's pretty damned inconvenient to change, so nobody does. We brought that switch to the front panel.

    Eventually, there will be an equalizer and a compressor (the EQ is in development as I tap this), so we made provisions for it ahead of time.

    In an actual 10 series module, the EQ sits between the input and output amplifiers in the module. It will in the MP-2NV as well, there is an insert point between the two sections. At the moment, I use it mostly with an RNC and/or a Speck ASC EQ, but you can use it with damn near anything.

    There are also two outputs, one balanced, on unbalanced. The thought being that the balanced output could be directed to the A/D converter before a DAW, and the unbalanced output could be used so the performer could monitor themselves without the 'buffers' and 'latency' of going through the DAW.

    There are a few other cool things about it...but that's all I feel like typing at the moment...
     
  7. hi all..
    thanks for everyones input...
    and Fletch..thanks for the story behind the unit...the new born (mp-2nv) should arrive any moment now...adrenaline is pumping!!!

    Val
     
  8. mantovibe

    mantovibe Active Member

    There are also two outputs, one balanced, on unbalanced. The thought being that the balanced output could be directed to the A/D converter before a DAW, and the unbalanced output could be used so the performer could monitor themselves without the 'buffers' and 'latency' of going through the DAW.

    There are a few other cool things about it...but that's all I feel like typing at the moment...[/QB][/QUOTE]
    _________________________________

    Man, that's really great!
    I don't understand why other manufacturers
    don't think of features like the above,in this DAW dominated world.
     
  9. Mindsender

    Mindsender Guest

    Nathan, I was saying the Amek was superior to the 2022 and all else as a Pre-Amp. The fact that it also has a great EQ (2022 is pre only) is icing on the cake. I don't find the compressor transparent "enough", but I haven't found one I liked yet, except a Waves Plug in card which does seem very nice. As you know, my experience is very limited from the engineering end, but I've been a singer for years and lead guitar, so I'm used to listening hard for nuiance, so my opinion is earnest, if still a little wet behind the ears. Paul
     
  10. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Paul, I agree with you that the pre in the "Channel In a Box" (CIB) is excellent, as is the equalizer. The compressor is also a pretty damn good compressor, but has a pretty steep learning curve before you really get comfortable with it.

    The one thing I hate about the unit is that the compressor is stuck behind the equalizer. I usually compress 'pre-eq', but this box won't let me do that. While Rupert has designed a 'pre/post' switch, the lovely people at Amek (a Harman International Co.) refuse to implement the modification.

    I'm lucky, I got Rupert to modify mine, but unless you're on a 'home phone number' basis with Rupert, he's not doing this mod for the general public (and frankly I don't blame him...they're not giving him dime one to do a job that should be done by the manufacturer). FWIW, we just dropped the "Pure Path" line of products. The 'pre/post' thing in the CIB was just one more reminder of why we don't deal with big, dumbass companies...
     

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