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great vocal mix - Artists Against - True Colors

Discussion in 'Vocals' started by audiokid, May 18, 2013.

  1. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Looking for vocal mixes I found this today and enjoyed it so much I couldn't help but post it. Kudo's to the Canadian sound.
    There are beautiful flavours of vocals and reverb in this.

    News | Watchdog Management

     
  2. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Beautiful. And a great set of voices with a nice collection of mics. I saw SM-7, U47, MD441, Horch(maybe), Blue, U67
     
  3. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Where do you think the HPF is sitting on the majority of these vocals?
     
  4. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Hard to say Chris....I didnt hear the big low-end bloom on the Neumanns that you'd expect. So maybe 100hz minimum.
     
  5. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    love the song. always have. even Cyndi couldn't butcher it although she tried pretty hard to.

    i absolutely support the cause and intent. i don't like all the auto tune. i can really hear it in spots. i guess no one can sing in tune these days.

    lots of nice equipment and a killer console there. almost overproduced imo. i would have been fine without the rap part.
     
  6. sshack

    sshack Active Member

    You pretty much took ALL of the words out of my mouth. Love the song, completely support such projects, don't like the sound of pitch correction or how it has become part of the 'modern' sound and I just can't get past any rap regardless of the good intentions.
     
  7. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Great mix of vocal colours :) .
     
  8. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member


    Heh heh....I think thats the point?

    I listened again. Not sure its auto-tune more than its the way the delay is being used. A side-chained delay will make some of the sounds I hear on this. Its kind of a popular effect. But it could be a heavy dose of auto-tune....maybe....

    At least the 'Rap' had appropriate subject matter. Did you notice the i-Phone manipulation while he was rapping? I think he was controlling his own effects with it.

    Yes, they have that technology now.
     
  9. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Side chain delay, that sounds interesting Dave! I've never done this, have you?
    I even like the rap in there. I think it was very tastefully done.
     
  10. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    i would bet the ranch it's auto tuned. i can hear auto tune at the drop of a hat. it makes the vocals sound "synthy" for lack of a better word ... almost like a very slight vocorder effect ... yuckh!
     
  11. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    I didn't say it WASN'T auto-tuned. I'm just saying that a lot of "auto-tuned" vocals these days are auto-tuned for the effect not because so many can't sing. A lot of these new pop singers can wail their asses off. There are other effects that are in 'vogue' now also and YES the vocal sound is akin to a synthy tonality. It is the style these days like it or not. Much like pre-delay on every vocal in the late 70's early 80's (thanks Eventide). I have a friend here in town who is a Pop Producer with lots of highend credits. (think Disney) and he's the one who clued me to the side-chained delays along with other little tricky effects. And yeah thats what they want to hear. Who am I to argue with success. If I could get 10K a song I'd put sampled Pope Farts on the recordings...........

    At some point my likes and dislikes become secondary to a successful completion of a project which brings in bacon and dog food. It becomes a job requiring my expertise and technique which I use on things I like to listen to also, but its the same thing in reality. Myskills-their needs-my studio-their songs-I'm hiring on as the VERY THING I bought all this junk to be. Its not really selling out because this isnt my music...but it is my set of gear and I'll be damned if its going to sit there without passing signal for months at a time just because someone wants to make Pop music and pay me to do it and I don't listen to that genre.

    Elitists fail because they can't see past their own built in prejudice about real things. I would go broke recording only things I like. That doesn't mean I take sessions that are destined to fail. Those with people who know it all because they read it online....(HA) who don't want to learn something or even when they entrust their project to someone who knows how to operate their own room they continue to meddle past the point of constructive dialog or progress to completion under budget and with quality. We all know how these things end up. Everyone frustrated and no one happy. No thanks.

    The more I open my mind the more I find less things that suck.
     
  12. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    well, you did get close.

    i guess i can live with being called elitist ... i've been called worse. but i still don't like auto tune. i think it gets in the way of the listening experience. and if these kids can really sing, for me it's a huge distraction. they might as well put a phase shifter on the whole thing ...
     
  13. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    whoa it's possible to make a recording w/out an m-box and an mxl, and... not in a bedroom? what's that place called? a studio? studios are the places w/ the kids upstairs right? i'm confused is this 1968?
     
  14. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member


    NOT directed at YOU Kurt. Just a commentary.
     
  15. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    sometimes i get a little "sensitive" .... lol. peace
     
  16. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    In fun and maybe we can push this thread in a new direction: I'm rushing along so forgive my sometimes :confused: wording. Busy week as always.

    Here's an an observation that has helped me discover and develop my sound and never to trust just anyone's opinion 100%. This is a clear example opinions are bias and subject to taste/genre. And that goes for me too.
    I love this mix of vocals yet others can't get passed the autotune ( why focus on this) I don't even think about it or hear it a set-back in the least. I'm listening to the mix, colours, balance etc.

    In the business world, if we were talking about Math or where the pencils are, there is only one right answer but for music, do you guys lets stuff like that get in the way of your ability to hear or help someone?

    When it comes to art, no one is right and maybe what we really need to be aware of when someone asks for advise is how taste effects our ability to help someone objectively. How many times have we read a story on how someone successful was kicked down time after time for years and then finally they found the right team.

    When someone says they don't like a mix because they hear autotune, its say's one thing to me lol. Stay clear of this persons opinion if the topic has anything to do with popular music! well, except for you Kurt because I think you have good days too hehe, (I'm pulling legs here).

    Joking aside, are people able to objectively help others if they don't appreciate technology or a style of a mix? This is what I'm wondering more and more?
    As an example, How many times have we heard a seasoned member rave over a mix that had terrible compression or dated sounding reverb on drums. Or that used electronic drums that suck but to others, are actually the flavour of the week. Some people love muddy bass that is clearly an indication their monitors are severely suffering from low end deficiencies and/or there is hearing loss going on. And I'm no exception either. I'm older now and question my ability to hear past 14k. I might tell someone they need more high end or the low end is muddy. You get my drift.

    I've never used autotune. But more so because I don't like how it, including most plug-ins soften and smears the sound of vocals. Even if I like it in other mix's, when it come to me using it on my work I always feel like effects takes something away from the clarity which is something I'm not willing to accept/ But, i know that might not serve me well at times too. I should get over my nit picky things too.

    Too bad I didn't understand how little taste had to do with talent when I was younger banging on doors blocked by someone from the 50's who hated the Roger Linn Casaba that made MJ, "Billie Jean" sound so awesome. I now think about the new generation and try and protect them from this sort of musical racism per-say. I use that term loosely because I think it fits in with how people are effected and swayed by sound. I mean, if you hear electronic drums, Kurt, you already have an opinion. Or if you hear Rap, you already have an opinion that may or may not have little to do with the mix. So, I respect your opinion but trust very little when it comes to popular music. I think we have to love a genre to really get past the noise or " flavour of the day".
    So you are a wealth of information but also dangerous lol. And possibly misleading because it might be taste? I dunno .. What do you think? What does anyone here think about this?

    I just listened to a few tracks of the White Album and I shake my head. This is considered a benchmark and it is by far one of the worst Beatles albums, total crap that reflects the mood and tone of the end of a good thing. So many people hear that album as good and all I hear is dated and boring. I would never use this to help me.
    Sam,e goes for a lot of older 60's music. I love the "music" but hate the sound of most of that stuff.

    Taste sure has a lot to do with the gear we choose as well. Some of us love the sound of tape but all I hear is muffle and crosstalk and the bass is usually really flabby. So, is it the music or the sound we are talking about most of the time? I'm thinking taste is talking a lot more than we think.

    I hope everyone takes my comments as fun, like old dudes shooting the $*^t around the fire drinking a beer.


    Your turn thumbs
     
  17. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    ok just for the sake of conversation ... my first thought is looking to what young people like as a benchmark is like putting a blindfold on and then letting a blind person help you cross a busy street with no crossing signals. a lot of kids these days have horrible taste. one only needs to look as far as some of the submissions posted here at RO. when they are told the drums sound like sneakers tumbling in a dryer the inevitable reply? "i meant it to sound like that" ... lol.

    i will also say i seriously doubt that most of the recordings released now days will live to see the light of day in even 3 years let alone in 40 or 50 years. modern pop has no shelf life or any value to it. it's disposable noise. they download it for nothing and then move on. the next time they buy a new ipod or ipad they throw it away and get some new tunes. there's no such thing as "Golden Oldies" these days.

    addressing the White Album;
    i think the albums main fault can be found in it's just too ambitious. There's quite a few songs on it that could (should) be culled. if the album had been released as follows i think it would have been a better double album and had a much better reception.

    1. Back in the USSR (2:43)
    2. Dear Prudence (3:57)
    3. Glass Onion (2:17)
    4. Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da (3:09)
    5. While My Guitar Gently Weeps (4:45)
    6. Happiness is a Warm Gun (2:44)
    7. Martha My Dear (2:29)
    8. I’m So Tired (2:03)
    9. Blackbird (2:18)
    10. Piggies (2:05)
    11. I Will (1:47)
    12. Julia (2:45)
    13. Birthday (2:43)
    14. Mother Nature’s Son (2:48)
    15. Long Long Long (3:04)
    16. Revolution 1 (4:16)
    17. Savoy Truffle (2:55)
    18. Cry Baby Cry (3:11)
    19. Good Night (3:12)

    with both the "White Album" and "Let it Be", you are listening to the disintegration of The Beatles in their death throws. first; the introduction of Yoko Ono into the group dynamic. second almost none of the songs were recorded in a collaborative effort by the band proper as in the past. it was described by the Beatles themselves as one guy and the rest of the band on one song and then another guy and the rest of the band on the next. a lot of overdubs ... some of the songs don't even have all four of them playing on them. Ringo finally had enough of walking into the studio and finding his kit re arranged for a left handed player that he quit. "Back in the UUSR" and "Dear Prudence were both sans Ringo" during this departure. it took them two weeks to convince him to come back. coming off of recording three of the best records they ever made, Revolver, Rubber Soul and Sgt. Pepper, is a hard track record to beat. and yes, they made a couple of real dogs, "Magical Mystery Tour"and the "White Album". this from Wikipedia.

    many parts of the record weren't even recorded at Abbey Road but instead at Trident Studios. George Martin and Geoff Emrick both walked out on the record before it was finished. still there are some gems. ... Harrison's contributions shine, "Savoy Truffle" & "Long Long Time" and "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" are three of my favorites on the record. there's no denying that "Revolution" (both versions) rock to the bone. i submit that even at their worst on the "White Album", the fab four was producing much better music than most anything being released these days. happily they reunited to record one of their best records ever with "Abbey Road" for their final effort ... they knew they couldn't leave it at that or with the again failed "Let it Be" as the last. i do not fault the Beatles for the "White Album". instead i see it as a document to what happened to a great band, sequestered in the studio for years, drug addicted, burned out and jaded. it's of interest to note Lennon was hooked on heroin at the time. "Happiness is a Warm Gun", Everybody’s Got Something to Hide 'Cept for Me and My Monkey" and "I'm So Tired" all have heavy smack influences.

    it was inevitable. and don't think they didn't know they had laid a "stinker".

    it's been fifty years since those records were released and they still sell millions of copies every year. people will listen to 50's 60's 70's rock and roll for the next fifty years while all the Rap and auto tuned pop, House, Dance and noisy Skrillex / Danger Mause will be long forgotten. the music being recorded these days has no shelf life.

    imo, letting kids help you make up your mind about music? As far as i can tell the only "taste" kids have these days is in their mouths.



    http://www.thewhitealbumproject.com/songs/overview-a-quick-look-at-the-tracks/
     
  18. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Nicely said Kurt, the next beer is on me.

    Ya I know, most songs today are forgotten in a month. All but a few, I don't even pay attention to the names of bands anymore. They are meaningless to me.
     
  19. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    as an engineer w/ any hopes of making a living, your doing yourself a dis-service if you don't know what a good mix 'should' sound like in a given genre, and i don't think that has, or will ever change w/ time. be it the wallet on the snare pop 70's, gated verb of the 80's, whatever it is. same as a musician, what was a guitar solo w/ out sweeps and taps at some point in time? melodic and memberable...?

    it's easy to hate on the flavor of the week when you don't need it. do you really wanna to be the 'music professional' on your i phone looking up client references you've never heard of, in front of them all the time. (by you i mean anyone reading, no finger point, just general bs-ing)

    it's not saying you have to be a copy cat, or follow genre trends. but when somebody wants that 'cool popular sound' to impress their friends, and sicken anyone who could make them sucessful, ya gotta be able to give them it, or they'll find some one who will. If your a painter and only like to paint houses red, and can sustain yourself doing so, then awsome. but the likely scenerio is you will have to paint things all kinds of colors like em or not. but if you don't know what purple looks like, then you ain't gonna last long.

    I think it's extremely naive to believe that lasting recordings are not being made today. It's just that POP music used to be music dsigned/released to make money, that were also great songs, now it's mostly just what will make money. But back in the hey-day, there was not even close to the selection of songs to listen to. there were like 3 major companies who released music, and owned radio. so in that respect the control/money hunger of pop never changed, and won't.

    now there are options to listen to way more music than a person would ever listen to in ten lives. you gotta dig thru the crap. No musician, or artful engineer is referencing taylor swoft as in influence. The 'lasting recordings' are going to be for the most part un-noticed by the mainstream. In a way it's a return to the old days but slightly skewed. like so many older famous/sucessful blues guitarist reference these 'genius' players who infuenced them, yet nobody has heard of them, and they still play three string guitars on there back porch. underexposure. now there's just soo much out there, that people are being underexposed because of the masking effect of crap. not the limited technology/means of yesteryear.

    my stance is that the 90's is the last decade of substance, and will be for quite a while as far as pop is concerned. if i hear a nirvana, or tool, or pantera song, i still know the words. 90's was chock full of good songs, be it from collective soul, alanis morrisette, or one hit/album oneders like lit, the toadies, 3rd eye blind. but those have faded. korn basically started butt-rock (bands like nickle back, and seether). from tupac to biggie the wu tang clan. those guys were real hip hop artists, who just happen to get heard. there is a lot of filler in the genre, but once in a great while there's just a groovy beat, and a dude/chic saying these vocal lines that just make sense, or tell a story, in a poets form. people will be referencing these records for the next 25 years at least. Sublime is a timeless band.

    i think what it really is, is we all tend to latch on to what made us excited about music, and i think most of the time it's the music from when we were kids. it's always been commercialized, it's always been to the 'formula'.

    currently listening alot to 'metric' a strange blend of electronic rock and female vocalist. not usually my style, but great hooks, and about %70 good songs. black keys early' albums, good stuff. new stuff...eh that's what happens when you 'get' famous doing it your way, and then the people who are in charge of famous people change everything about it. 2 most money making records, least lasting from my POV.

    i'm diggin the grooves of dr john's 2012 album Dr. John - Locked Down (2012) Full Album - YouTube dudes been round the block, and still putting out the jams.

    ya know substance use/experimentation seems not have poked it's head thru the last 15 years or so of pop music. from a neutral/non-moral stance, each seems that each decade since the 50's had it's 'calling card' if you will, that was prevalent among popular artists. we don't see that much today. not that i can blame excecs for being tired of their cash cows killing themselves, or bandmates not wanting to deal w/ it. But if you look at things in broad terms like decades, and genres, the youth populus's headspace certainly comes into play. and

    it is youth that has defined era's for a long time. it wasn't middle aged women fainting over elvis or the beatles. nor was it when poison and motley cru wre famous. perhaps it's not just youth, but relative age/time? maybe jazz and clasical are exceptions, but those seem to be based on experience, and refinement, but yet it was people in their youth creating them.

    rambling long enough. i just wonder, will there ever be another beatles/elvis mania type thing ever again? was it just part of the state of the times, the way the planets aligned. the perfect meld of creativivty, orginality, and technology?
     

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