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Guitar Amp Speaker

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by mercurix, Dec 2, 2006.

  1. mercurix

    mercurix Active Member

    Hey, this isnt exactly a recording question but how do you go about changing a blown speaker from an amp? I have an old Carvin amp and I wanted to put an Eminence speaker in there. The amp says 100 Watts on it, but I dont know if thats RMS or Peak, and even if I knew, Im not sure what the rules are. Will a 75W RMS, 150W Peak speaker work on this? Thanks.
     
  2. djrr3k

    djrr3k Guest

    Greetings,

    If it's 100W amp, you'd be better off with a 75W speaker. Your amp is probably rated as RMS. It's always better to overpower a speaker than underpower it. Your safe unless play on 10 all the time.

    Cheers,
    -Ryan-
     
  3. Nirvalica

    Nirvalica Guest

    lol, im sorry, but that makes no sense.... Unless you are looking for speaker breakup distortion.


    I would say get a speaker that is 100w or more.... having a higher wattage speaker wouldn't hurt anything. Make sure you match the ohms though.
     
  4. Tommy P.

    Tommy P. Well-Known Member

    mercurix , the answer to your question could be the famous yes, and no, making both prior posters answers a respectable option for you.

    Speaking only in terms of practicality, and not tone, you may want a speaker that you couldn't easily burn, as Nirvalica pointed out.
    But bullletproof doesn't always add up to good tone though, and most classic amps are designed the way djrr3k mentions.

    Actually, it depends on the application. There are reasons for putting a 200 watt EV or JBL speaker into a fifteen watt combo, just as there would be reasons for putting the Celestion 15 watt Blue into the same cab. Tone from the speaker is the final link in the chain (excluding the room) and counts for a major part of the recipe for guitar amp tone- specs don't count as much as the final outcome=tone.

    There are common sense reasons not to push a 15 watt $300 dollar Blue with a, say, 30 or 50 watt or fifty head, -but-, if you are a player who knows his equipment and is playing within the safe zone limits of the equipment, then you could well afford the luxury of the extra headroom and tone available in such a setup. Crossing the line is always tempting in such setups, and I could't tell you how many times I've smelled the aroma of well toasted speaker coils. Always sounds so damn good up to that point! :cry:

    Go to Weber speakers online and check out all the custom options for a hand built speaker. Smooth cone, ribbed cone, paper, hemp, composite, metal, surround damping, voice coil, magnet, cast frame, steel frame, painted frame ect ect, it all adds up. Listen to tone examples on the Eminence and others websites, they are pretty spot on in thier representations.

    BTW, make sure you know the true output of your amp, the 100 watt stamp on the back sometimes relates to a loosely spec'd manufacturer claim, or even relates to the aux power outlet on the back!

    So my humble answer is, go for tone.
     
  5. djrr3k

    djrr3k Guest

    Tone is the key, guess I should ask what style music your playing. Personally I'd rather hit a tube hard and have some speaker breakup than kick on my boss metal zone pedal and crank 400 watts of crate solid state.

    And for the record I've heard from multiple sources that hitting a speaker with far too little power is just as bad (in the long run) as hitting it with too much power. Where's Remy at? We need a cup of knowledge to sip on.
     
  6. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    I am the co-owner of a speaker re-coning business. Hitting a speaker with "too little power" is not going to hurt it UNLESS the "speaker" is a HF horn diaphragm in a sound sytem and you are pushing its' power amp into severe clipping. So, in that scenario, it's better to push a 60-watt driver with a 100-watt amp IF the the amp is not clipping. The "squared-off" clipped waveform will burn the diaphragm by not letting it move correctly to keep the voicecoil cool.
    Other than that, TommyP has the tone thing right. I like to use Eminence as often as I can, simply because of their tonal pallette and reliability, and they are very affordable without being "cheap". BTW, which Carvin model do you have, and is it tube or silly-state?
     
  7. Tommy P.

    Tommy P. Well-Known Member

    Yep, amplifier clipping will sure fry a HF driver in a hurry, even at low power. I didn't know you had a biz Moonbaby. Thats cool. Were you known by another nick on these boards at one time?

    Back to the speaker topic, I would say from my experience, that the only reason I know of that could possibly negatively impact an under powered speaker would be the fact that it wouldn't "break-in".

    Speakers have a break-in period after which time the sound opens up and settles into its voice over the long haul. Surround damping and cone stiffness, motor movement ... all come into play here I think. Moonbaby would be the expert here as we've just found out! Tell us more!
     
  8. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    TommyP:
    No, I have always used that nickname on this site. I am known as "SamuraiSoundman" on another. I co-own a local sound company/speaker repair business here. My partner handles the actual repairs ( I think he likes the smell of adhesives in the morning!), and I handle the live and remote recording end of things. I have seen all too many whacked situations that live musicians get themselves into. There are too many "urban myths" out there that lead these guys into trouble with their gear. I laugh at times, but I cry some, too, like the time I saw a vintage '59 335 get the "ALvin Lee" treatment by hacking a hole in between the 2 PAFs of this guy's dads guitar and stuffing a Strat pick-up in it...Oh well.
    Anyway, there are speakers that sound great because they actually were inferior in design. The original Rola Celesions in the Marshall 1960 cabs come to mind. The dinky ceramic magnets on them wouldn't dissipate the heat fast enough, so as the speakers got driven by the dimed amp, they had this "window od opportunity" where the speaker would heat up and the bass notes would get a bit soft and blurry and the mids would punch through stronger. But if the amp kept chugging for too long, the speakers would get TOO hot and and TOO slurred, then they would eventually fail.
    But during that "window" they made whatever you played through them sound great. Kinda like the engine in my old MGB (another Brit engineering marvel!).
     
  9. CoyoteTrax

    CoyoteTrax Well-Known Member

    FWIW I'll 3rd what TommyP and Moonbaby are saying about using a 75 watt speaker in your Carvin and I'd lean toward the 75 watt Eminence myself. Weber speakers absolutely rock it's true. I've enjoyed the tight low-end "spank and thump" of Eminence speakers in my Fender amps and the ability to handle insane breakup of Celestions in my Vox Cambridge. Carvin's are so neutral though you may really enjoy Webers as a replacement if you have one of the Carvin vintage series amps which I like alot for pristine, clean tone. You can't loose with Webers or Eminence really.

    Moonbaby, I need to buy new foam surrounds for my Infinity RS-9's. Do you sell them?
     
  10. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Coyote:
    Sorry for the delay. Geo does a LOT of Infinty work, and I left him a note regarding the model. I will know something later today when I see him. To make sure that I understand you, you just want the surrounds, and will do them yourself, correct?
     
  11. CoyoteTrax

    CoyoteTrax Well-Known Member

    That's correct Moonbaby. Just the surrounds, and I'll do them myself. Thanks for checking.
     
  12. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Coyote:
    The RS-9 apparently uses a discontinued 6" woof. Their specs are very meager on the Infinity site. Geo simply said that whoever re-surrounds them will need to "eyeball" the speakers and rig them with whatever foam surrounds they have at their disposal. There have been too many discontinued Infinty models to track. He said that he regularly has to trim this type of part to serve different cones. Sorry that doesn't help much, but you'll probably have to have a local service guy look at them.
     
  13. CoyoteTrax

    CoyoteTrax Well-Known Member

    Thanks Moonbaby, I appreciate the info. It's too bad there's not just a little kit of surrounds for those. They're nice to mix on to get a feel for how the mix will sound on bookshelf speakers. I did get to hear a pair of JBL Control 1's and they were fantastic so I'll just replace my Infinity's with those while I find someone to repair the Infinity's. For $75 I think it would be very difficult to find a pair better than the JBL's for now.
     
  14. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    You didn't say which version of the RS-9 you have (this would not make a difference in the parts availability)...I have seen the KAPPA version around, so I originally figured that this would be a cinch. But Harmon has long taken the "path of most resistance" with many of their products: keep 'em guessing and confused. Too many "upgrades", discontinuations, and the like, not to mention their observance of the NIH factor ("not invented here"), which leaves servicing a lot of their product lines to a handful of dealers. Sorry about the rant....BTW, I have seen (and heard) many studios use the Control Ones, and they don't do badly. A mix put up on them seems to translate fairly well on other systems.
     
  15. CoyoteTrax

    CoyoteTrax Well-Known Member

    I'm not aware of any sub-genre with the RS-9's, so you've got me at a loss there. They're the Reference Standard series with no other designation labeled on the speakers. The serial numbers start with an "A" and the serial numbers are successive so even though I've only had them for 13 years I know they came out as a pair from the factory. A local repair shop should be able to do something [I hope].

    I had no idea studio's were using the Control 1's. I've never seen them in use but thought the response really nice and flat. Very crisp and uncolored for bookshelf speakers, with a nicely placed bass port in front. Thanks for letting me know other's are using them. The ability to handle 100 watts each was a surprise too. I've been put off by the cost of JBL monitor's but thought to check out their consumer products to replace my 9's. If they do well I may not buy the Tannoy's I've been eyeballing.
     
  16. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Actually, the Control 1 was marketed by JBL more as a background music speaker. But the smaller post rooms in ad agencies and TV stations have gotten their hands on them, probably due to the deals that places like Full Rumpass and broadcast suppliers were offering. They could easily put together a small 5.1 system on a budget, and their clients would see the "JBL" logo on them. That would be a good thing in many folks' eyes.
    Plus, they are tough enough to be used in an outdoor cafe!
     
  17. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    You guys are KILLIN me....I harken back to a couple of studios ago when I had JBL Model 5's and a pair of Model 1's.Flat with no fatigue. Hard to find used these days.... I sold the 5's ....bought a pair of NS10's (why....go ahead and ask)..the Ones lasted until the huge windstorm dropped a big branch on the service drop and caused a DC short in the Crown DC150A running them. I still have the boxes and all the melted parts somewhere. JBL wants a fortune to replace all the parts or I'd have them up and running as the flanks on my 7.1 TV setup. The Crown was also broken and lives out in the old amp pile in the garage along with the Crown Power Line One, the SAE 31, and an older Scott integrated....

    "Honey what are you going to do with all this junk??"

    "I'm gonna fix it some day, babydoll."

    " I want to park my car in there!"

    " Next year, I promise, sweetheart....."
     
  18. MadTiger3000

    MadTiger3000 Active Member

    Man. That reminds me of a huge lightning strike to our substation near the house. The circuit breakers AND the little-ass "surge protector" were both punked in milliseconds. Lost a TV, but didn't have a home studio at the time.

    Anyone here have an uninterruptible power supply setup on their, uh, setup?

    Consider it.
     
  19. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    I know that feeling! I lost a pair of beloved JBL 4311s and a Marantz 1090 amp years ago to lightning. Florida is known as "the lightning capitol of the world", I knew it could happen, and was lazy/stupid/arrogant (take your pick) about it and let it happen. No more broken hearts or burned up gear. I UNPLUG every AC, phone, and data connector to the outside world before leaving the room.
    It's a PIA, but a helluvalot cheaper than the alternative. I don't want to lose the 4310s and the 1070 I replaced those with. Hard to find in decent condition, and the adjuster says, "How old are these?"
    DD: You listed SAE... I learned about them from the Clair Bros using those power amps for Yes in the CB's very early years. I had an SAE parametric EQ back in the late 70's. It had horizontal sliders and about as much headroom as a midget's baseall cap, but it looked real cool!
     
  20. CoyoteTrax

    CoyoteTrax Well-Known Member

    Mad, I do happen to use a UI power supply for my setup (DAW and rack) and can't believe the "bang for the buck" factor. I have always used Furman conditioners but when I moved out to AZ recently decided to try an inexpensive little APC 350 and it's saved my butt at least 3 times.

    Talking about inexpensive, cool, but truly beautiful and functional old power amps - I'll never part with my Sansui AU-505. Not as powerful or coveted as the Sansui AU-D11 I ran for years but the sound is more "discrete" IMO.
     

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