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Guitar recording mics

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by Guitarwiz, Aug 26, 2001.

  1. Guitarwiz

    Guitarwiz Guest

    I just wonder which mics are good for guitar recording. So, which mic would be the best for a tight, distorted guitar?

    I helped some friends recording a demo/CD and we couldn't get a good sound. Right now I can't remember which mics we used, but we want to go over it again.

    We are using a Carvin Legacy with matching 4x12" cab and a Tube Works 1x12", 100W combo with a 1x12" extension cab. Very different sounds and they're a pain to match.

    Suggestions? Thanx in advance.
     
  2. nrgmusic

    nrgmusic Member

    Originally posted by Guitarwiz:
    I just wonder which mics are good for guitar recording. So, which mic would be the best for a tight, distorted guitar?

    I helped some friends recording a demo/CD and we couldn't get a good sound. Right now I can't remember which mics we used, but we want to go over it again.

    We are using a Carvin Legacy with matching 4x12" cab and a Tube Works 1x12", 100W combo with a 1x12" extension cab. Very different sounds and they're a pain to match.

    Suggestions? Thanx in advance.


    Guitarwiz
    here are the mics I tend to head for first of course ymmv but they seem to work for me and not necessarily in order:

    md 421
    sm57
    sm58
    e609
    u87ai
    c414
    u47 fet
    royer r121/sf12

    plus of course a bunch of different mic pres...

    hope this helps and of course it depends on the type of music.

    Simon :)
     
  3. miketholen

    miketholen Member

    after trying most every thing I could get my slimy hands on I have wound up with a Coles 4038, Royer r121,Beyer 201,Beyer 260,and somtimes an old D12 for the super scoop!
     
  4. Aaron-Carey

    Aaron-Carey Active Member

    here is a screen cap from IRC while I was explaining how I used a trick from my favorite engineer in the world:

    "
    <AES_24_192> ok not like its big head or anything, just how I do it
    <AES_24_192> first you need at least two mics
    <AES_24_192> and hopefully a console, at least some sort of summing system, and mic pre's with a phase reverse, or if you use extreme ghetto technology, a out of phase cable and an in phase cable
    <AES_24_192> lets just say that you are doing heavy barfing death palm muting stuff for this
    <AES_24_192> so you dont want much room sound, just big chunk, so when you stop playing it stops....this will work for a bigger with room sound too, but this is for example
    <AES_24_192> I say that stuff so I can say for this example, just two mics, on a 4x12 one mic on axis right into the center of the cone, one mic on a different speaker, off axis sorta, pointed at almost the surround, but still inside the speaker
    <AES_24_192> ok now, make some sort of steady noise, hum ( easy if you have a fender strat) or maybe put your guitar near a VGA monitor, or even just plug a tone generator into the amp
    <AES_24_192> now bring up the first mic ( i am assuming a console for this, tailor to youer needs as necessary)
    <AES_24_192> turn it and the gain till you got zero of some sort on your meter, just from the noise
    <AES_24_192> now leave the first mic fader where its atr, but hit the mute for that channel
    <AES_24_192> now bring up the other mic on fader # 2 till it is at zero
    <AES_24_192> now turn on fader one( unmute) see if the levels drop as if they are out of phase, if not hit the phase switch till it looks out of phase so the level drops
    <AES_24_192> set it so that the faders are out of phase for sure, and make sure they are at the same level
    <AES_24_192> now, cancel your health insurance, tell everyone around DO NOT TOUCH the guitar or tone generator or whatever...
    <AES_24_192> put some headphones on that hear the two faders ( like control room mix to your headphones)
    <AES_24_192> go out in the room with the amp make sure the headphones are so loud you dont hear the amp direct, only the mic'ed signal
    <AES_24_192> now you should hear a hum or tone or whatever noise you are sending in your ears in your headphones
    <AES_24_192> now move the mics back and forth relative to each other, and you will hear phasey, flangey whooshing noises
    <AES_24_192> at some point, they will be SO out of phase that you will not hear JACK in your headphones...stop right there and rejoice
    <AES_24_192> now go back out to the console and flip the phase switch to opposite what it was
    <AES_24_192> you now have a " theoretically " in phase guitar mic setup
    <AES_24_192> it will be fat ass and $*^t, you can push the faders back and forth nowe that you know theyre in phase and all
    <AES_24_192> use the faders as your primary eq, the two mic piositions will be different enough that you will get a wide range of sounds just by pushing them
    <AES_24_192> also as a variation on this, the phasing trick works best at the frequency of the tone you sent it...it is most accurate at that frequency, thuis if you are most worried about a certain part of the tone, you can use a tone generator to send that frequency, and phase using that...

    You can make for a bigger, more room, sound and still be in phase-ish as you are phasing the mics, just keep moving back away from the cab, you will hear it get louder and softer, in cycles. After 1 or two cycles, you will probably have to turn up the mic preamp gain at the console, as the mic being further away will bring it to less than zero.

    you can use more mics, different mics, whatever, just be aware that phasing will be a little less between unmatched or more mics...but youll figure it out

    Also once you are done, you can stick the tracks in a PC editor multitrack app and line the phase up even more! You may think to just throw two mics up and phase them in your app later, BUT it is EASILY possible to have two mics in phase, but have them in places that DONT sound good. Better to have a good idea first of how it will sound!


    feel free to e-mail me at
    pipelineaudio@angelfire.com
    looking for coders to help me make my own app and some sorely needed fx"

    Hope that helps
     
  5. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Is the amp tight or do you need to get the mic to sound tight? If the usually cardioid dynamics are unmanageable on a wooly, bassy sounding amp, an EV 635a can be damned useful. It's an omni dynamic, about the same price range as a 57, and it'll minimize bass congestion on close micing. The fact that it's omni might seem like a bad idea, but if you put it right on a loud amp, you're getting almost all amp tone anyhow. A really useful mic for other stuff, too.

    Bear
     
  6. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Originally posted by Guitarwiz:
    I helped some friends recording a demo/CD and we couldn't get a good sound. Right now I can't remember which mics we used, but we want to go over it again.

    We are using a Carvin Legacy with matching 4x12" cab and a Tube Works 1x12", 100W combo with a 1x12" extension cab. Very different sounds and they're a pain to match.


    They're a "pain to match" to each other, or a "pain to match" to the original track you don't like?

    May I suggest that you get a sound from either [or both] that sounds excellent in the room, and then worry about capturing the sound.

    Too many people seem to feel that $*^t like microphones and preamps can make up for a deficiency with the 'tone and touch' aspects of playing an instrument. I'll give you a hint, recording engineers don't do 'alchemy', they take waveforms out of the air, and store them. Period. If the sound isn't there to begin with, there is no way in hell you can capture it.

    If the sound is there, then ^#$% with microphone selection and placement until it fits with the rest of the tracks that comprise the song.

    One thing I've found to be most helpful...get the cabinet at least 3' off the ground. Probably because I'm old and don't like to bend over to listen to a guitar amp...but frankly, the guitar's I've captured over the last few years that were at least 3' off the ground seem to have come out the best.

    As always, YMMV.
     
  7. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    Originally posted by Guitarwiz:
    I just wonder which mics are good for guitar recording. So, which mic would be the best for a tight, distorted guitar?

    I use a BLUE U47 and a Shure Sm-57. I get all I need out of that combo (provided the player and amp are both up to par).
     
  8. Bob Olhsson

    Bob Olhsson Distinguished Member

    If you don't have a pair of SM-57s and 635as, buy them before investing in anything else.

    You can cook without salt and pepper too but you've still got one hand tied behind your back to not at least have the old standbys available as an option.
     
  9. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    I did a really small rig (10watt) with a single 635...it was a monstor...really good recording..I also put a B&K back about 3 feet as well...the 635 did really nice..and the condenser padded down about 12 dB was really nice for low level resolution and some room.

    Just the 635A EV was great!
     
  10. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    BTW, cheapskates beware, I think the EV PL5 is, aside from the finish, the same thing as the 635a. And they go for next to nothing on Ebay. (I have my stash of these, so I don't need to horde these.)

    Bear
     
  11. The EV-635 seems to come in two flavours now, wich one is THE 635 to go for: 635A or 635N/D-B ?

    /Mats
     
  12. sign

    sign Guest

    I have very good results with Beyer M69 or M88.
    The 88 has more low end than the 69. The Beyer M201 is also very good.

    In case you record the whole band in the same room I guess they're the best you can have.

    I did lots of (metal) bands and used Sennh. 421/441, AKG C1000/3000, and many other mics on dist. guitar, but I mostly use the Beyers now, they're great :)
     

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