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Guitar sound

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by Magnus johansson, Jan 18, 2003.

  1. Hi guys!

    I guess this isn´t the first time anyone asks this question. What shall I do about my recorded guitar sound, it really sucks. I playing through a custom built tube amp and 4x12
    http://www.elmwood.se/
    and a TC G major, I guess the only bad in the rig is me... :c:

    Magnus Sweden
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Magnus,
    Try using just the SM57. I have heard some negative comments on the AKG 2000 from readers and other engineers whose opinion I respect. I have never used it myself, so for purposes of this reply, this is purely a rumor. These comments were in regard to a metallic resonance type of sound and remarks were that it was just “weird sounding”. Eliminate this mic from your setup and see if that helps. Less can be more at times.

    Getting the guitar tone you hear in the room to the recorder and out to the playback speakers is one of the most difficult challenges recordists are presented with. This is a subject that is prevalent. Mics don't work the way human ears do and guitarist are fiercely married to their tone. The sound is going through a whole new stage of transduction and this alters the sound. You will have to learn to use the whole process, not just the guitar - amp combination but rather the guitar-amp-mic- recorder- mixer- monitor speaker combination. None of this stuff makes a signal better, it simply alters it. Some adjustment of your coveted guitar tone at the amp may be necessary to achieve the end result you desire out of the monitors. Sometimes you may just have to settle and work with what you have. Fats
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D ,
    Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
    Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  3. Thanks Fats!

    I´ll try to work with the things I got. I´ll try to build a portable 19" studio but I Havn´t soldered the patch yet so there hasnt been time to test the new equipment...My guess is that the calrec eqs will at least make a difference in the right direction instead of the digital inside the roland 1680.
    Is there any place on the net where there is information about miking amps and stuff like that. Its been 8 years since I was in a recording position in a studio last so I just found out how fast I forgot about it....but I´m working on a recovery.

    Thanks for your fast responce :c:

    Magnus
     
  4. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Magnus,
    I don't know of any websites that offer that. If you wish, as your questions and situations arise, you may either post at the "small steps" forum or feel free to send me a PM and I will respond with any information, techniques answers if I have them. If I don't know, someone else may. Fats
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D ,
    Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
    Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  5. M Brane

    M Brane Guest

    Good advice from Fats.

    Mic placement on guitars is tricky at best with one mic. Two mics can double the fun, ;)

    Get your amp up off the floor and away from the walls. Close micing is really the only option if your room is small.

    One trick I sometimes use is to put on a set of 'phones and move the mic around until I find a spot I like. I like to mic toward the edge of the cone when up close on a sealed cab with a dynamic like the 57.

    Lately I've been experimenting with small diaphram omni condensors. They're quite accurate at capturing the sound of the amp from farther back, but if you don't like the sound of the room your in your doomed! ;)

    If at first you don't succeed, try something different!

    :c:
     
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    The omnis, that’s a great tip. I will have to try it. Perhaps part of the reason that ribbons work so well is because they have a figure 8 pattern (most of them) so they are picking up more of the room like the omnis cited in your suggestion ….. Fats
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D ,
    Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
    Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  7. gonzo-x

    gonzo-x Guest

    a lot of people will argue with this.
    a lot of people will agree.

    i don't care either way......

    a shure sm57 will color the guitar in a way that almost always flatters the guitar, and brings it out in the mix.

    So many pros have used this mic, through the years, it's probably a big part of the sound for almost all the pros that have used it.

    now, room sound makes a huge impression, if you use distance micing...

    but a 57, on the cone, is the preferred practice.

    now, i've been recording electric guitar with mics for years.... and i've always found the 57 is the deal for me.....

    but that having been said, you must experiment with every conceivable mic position you can imagine......
    fractions of an inch will radically change the sound, and how it sits in the mix.

    it's so much voodoo, you know........
     
  8. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Another mic I have used successfully for guitar amps surprisingly is the AKG D112! Very nice for high gain distorted Marshall type cabs! ..... Fats
     
  9. aloomens

    aloomens Active Member

    WHat about for clean electric guitar, still the SM-57? Any others to consider? Someone suggested using an Audix D-2. Has anyone used this for guitar cabs?
     
  10. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Get a Sennheiser MD421...the older ones, the U5's. I am getting quite addicted to the one I am borrowing at the moment, and may not ever give it back to its owner! ;)

    It sounds "different" than my SM57s...not necessarily better, but different. Different songs might require different mics, and as always, don't be scared to experiment. Try all 4 speakers in a 4x12 cabinet to find the one that sounds the best... try different mic positions, cone vs. towards the outside... try on-axis vs. off-axis...different mics...multiple mics...

    Be bold! Be brave!
     
  11. Mario-C.

    Mario-C. Active Member

    yes the 421 is great, I would like to add that the room you record in makes a big difference, every time I work in small crappy rooms it takes longer to get the guitar to sound right....
     
  12. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    The 421 has a big lift at 2K that continues out where the 57 has a presence peak at 5K. Try one of each. That's very cool.

    Al, for clean guitar cab, (you use a 15" right?) I would try a U87, 414 or a 4033. Or maybe a 414 and a U87. Ribbon mics are nice on guitar too. These get the highs without a lot of "edginess’". But you must be cautious with a ribbon. Put it in the carrying bag before you walk across the room with it. The ribbon is very sensitive to air blasts / movement. It is very easy to stretch the ribbon. Fats
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
    Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  13. Pez

    Pez Active Member

    When you said it sounded like a metal can it makes me think that it's either some weird mic sound (as Fats suggested) or you're picking up the sound of the room. If you just use one 57 close to the speaker then most of the ambient room sound will be eliminated. If it still sounds bad then I would look at the rest of your recording equipment. It could be anything, low bit rate, crappy sound card, cheap A/D converters, whatever. 75% of a guitar sound comes from the individual player. Types of picks, gauge of string, strength of attack, dynamics, how close to the bridge you play, etc. make a big difference as well.
     
  14. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    You didnt mention what guitar you're using or whether its real loud distorted music or clear clean or what? anywho...fer anything up to the most loudest distortedest stuff a 57 in on one of your speaker cones should do the trick..if its really really loud i'd see about finding a sennheiser m406 or 609...fats mentioned a d112 which would also work..ie something that has a very limited sensitivity...d112's aresupposed to be kick drum mics but IMHO they suk bigtime for that..for loud guitar cabs theyre very good...i would find a spot out and above the cab for that c2000...in short get it out of the air movement...and check your settings on the tc unit perhaps you've got a program thats got a little eq notch thats a bit nasal...peace
     
  15. jimab

    jimab Guest

    see what you think of this guitar tone ... http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album?aid=1573&alid=126#9854 parker guitar, marshall jmp1 and matching power amp and alesis quadverb. the great thing about that marshall is the speaker simulator. those tracks are all recorded in-line... no mics. clean and dirty... enjoy :)
     
  16. RobertS2003

    RobertS2003 Guest

    I am talky today....

    I agree there needs to be specification on what style guitar is being recorded. There seems to be different techniques for clean,drive,overdrive and crunchy.

    Just another tip for some...I did a recording once with a guy that had a Soldano with a Palmer speaker emulator....SHWEW...I know the Soldano had a bit to do with it....but the Palmer definately was a nice alternative or addition to micing.

    Robert
     
  17. trebles

    trebles Guest

    what do you guys think of using the sennheiser 441 or Ev re20 for the above purpose as well
     
  18. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Trebles,
    They wouldn't be my first choice for that application. But it wouldn't hurt to try them. If they sound like what you want, then by all means use them. RE 20's are usually used for voice over and bass instrument applications. The 441 is a great for stage vocal as well as an instrument mic due to its hyper cardioid pattern. Stevie Nicks has a very soft voice and developed polyps on her vocal chords due to over singing / pushing her voice too hard to hear herself in the monitors. She used to prefer a 441 for her vocals on stage. Kurt
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  19. Hi guys!

    Thanks for all your input...I forgot to tell you what kind of sound I am using...well we are mostly recording demos with our coverband so it all kind of music..soft pop to metallica....but I often use some grades of distortion...
    And I always bypasses my FX when recording..Think its better to get that in mix...
    I always use close micing ( SM57 ) but tried to put a parralell mic in phase to get another sound to match with the SM57.

    Magnus

    Magnus
     
  20. Pez

    Pez Active Member

    And I always bypasses my FX when recording..Think its better to get that in mix...

    This depends on what equipment you've got but if you're the typical user then I honestly believe you will get a better sound by using your effects and not bypassing them when recording. Most outboard boxes sound better then plugins. The real effect is nearly aways better than the simulated one.
     

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