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Hello! Newbie needs help:big latency issues M-audio Ozonic

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Biggnik, Mar 23, 2006.

  1. Biggnik

    Biggnik Guest

    Hello dear recording-freaks,

    I'm a newbie on this site and have some serious latency issue with M-audio ozonic: the reason I put a post here is that I already wrote to M-audio support several times without getting 1 answer, even in different languages!(but I'll keep trying)

    I used the Ozonic on a Toshiba Satellite M40-155(PSM40) 2.0GhZ/100GB HD/1.5 Gb Ram, wich is a quite powerful setup to work with: I work with Cubase SX: and after a few months I noticed the latency increased(I don't remember how much it was) to 6ms-in/8ms-out with a 256 buffersize, wich is noticeable while recording vocalists/guitar players..... and wich seems too big for the setup I have.

    I couldn't find a way to lower the latency except to lower the buffer size wich, on large projects, caused pops and crackles.

    So recently I purchased a very powerful desktop: an AMD ATHLON 64 X2 4600+ dual core/200GB main drive-74GB 10000 rpm audio recording drive/2GB ram/256mb Graphics card, wich I immediately noticed is more than 5 times as powerful as my Toshiba.

    The latency in the beginning was 3ms-in/4ms-out at 256 buffersize wich is very good; then I reimported projects created on the Toshiba and a week later when opening Cubase and wondering how far I could push the latency, I noticed THE LATENCY HAD BECOME THE SAME AS THE TOSHIBA!?!?= 6ms-in/8ms-out! for 256 buffersize

    How is this possible? Did any of you guys experience the same thing with M-audio audio-interfaces?Is there anything I could do or check to fix this? Could it be that the"corrupted latencies" from my Toshiba-projects got onto my new desktop.Because now I can't get it lower, even after reinstalling the drivers.

    Thank you very much for taking the time to read this, and I hope somebody could help me,

    Best regards to you all,

    Biggnick


    "Be good, work hard and all your dreams will come true"
     
  2. Kent L T

    Kent L T Active Member

    http://www.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=22211&highlight=nforce4
    This might answer your questions about latency problems if the new board is an nforce4 board and you are running a high end graphics card.
     
  3. pr0gr4m

    pr0gr4m Well-Known Member

    I'm just guessing here...

    Since you've done a computer upgrade, you can probably rule that out. The cubase software is definitely able to get better latency times. So that leaves one place to look, your audio interface. I'm assuming you are using the same one you used for the Toshiba and you are also proabably using the same drivers.

    That would be my guess as to where your problem is. It might be that as the track count grows, the latency does as well.

    If you can, try testing with a completely different audio interface. If you can't, see if M-audio has any new updated ASIO drivers.
     
  4. Biggnik

    Biggnik Guest

    Thanx guys, but I'm still searching...

    Hello,

    yhank you for the clear and quick answers.
    For clarifications:
    I have an ASUS A8N32-SLI DELUXE(with NFORCE4)
    Graphics: ASUS GEFORCE EN6600GT 256 MB WITH SILENCER

    The link for Cubase provides some answers, but a lot of people are still stuck.
    The thing here is that in the beginning of using my brand new desktop I had
    very low latencies: 3ms-in/4ms-out (256 buffer)wich is very good, then while re-using projects made on the Toshiba (as said in my first mail) the computer got the same latency.

    Meanwhile I saw there was a new driver for my graphics card & the motherboard(this one I won't install:seems to create troubles)

    And yesterday evening I ran a google search " audio latencies","audio latency","acceptable audio latency"..... and found some interesting sites
    and web pages that talk clearly about latency:

    http://soundwave.com/Htm/Articles/April/Audio_Latency.htm

    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan05/articles/pcmusician.htm
    (optimising cpu for lower latency) !!! BELOW THIS LINK-PAGE THERE ARE OTHER ARTICLES FROM SoundOnSound that are very interesting.


    So, in a way a conclusion is that, for the powerful cpu I have, I should have different buffersize-settings for different purposes:

    A.) Recording: Best at 128 buffersize(on my system: 3ms-in/4ms out ->
    that's the same as when I started but with 256buffer: sufficient for most recordings(vocals, guitars, horns)not to hear a "doubling" effect while recording)

    B.) Mixing and recording automations/vst-instruments: Best at 256 buffersize (on my system the same as the Toshiba* 6msin/8ms-out)


    So I have to take some peace with this, yet I imported yesterday a project from the Toshiba that was way too heavy for it and i had to freeze 2 StylusRMX instances/1Trilogy instance/+many audio tracks with a lot of inserts where the cpu meter showed 85% constanstly or even higher(with clicks and crackles)

    I tried this on my new system at buffersize 128(the half of Toshiba)
    and the result was quite positive as it took my deception nearly totally away: i could unfreeze all tracks and VSTinstruments and even add other instruments/FX while the cpu meter got maximum to 60%:

    That means my system is approximatively 4 times more powerful than the Toshiba.


    For the suggestion of audio drivers, I already tried to install the newest version, but it gave me both on Toshiba and AMD HIGHER LATENCIES!!!


    I'm currently TRYING to contact M-audio support which seems to be more difficult than climbing the Everest with a 200 pounds extra weights while your wife got away with the milkman and your dog did hara-kiri....


    So CONCLUSION the 6ms-in/8ms-out with 256 buffer is UNACCEPTABLE on such a powerful system, yet through the different-buffersize-purposes
    it is possible yet to work on very big projects, considering that you have to switch buffers sometimes, wich is a little incomfort but, after all it works and is stable, so I don't need to worry that much about "luxury-latency" details I think, and besides that M-audio Ozonic is a very good product,
    but is not in the TOP CATEGORY of audio recording interfaces....


    Thank you for the answers again,it could help<me further,

    I 'll continue my investigation.....,


    Biggnik
     
  5. Biggnik

    Biggnik Guest

    Thanx guys, but I'm still searching...

    Hello,

    yhank you for the clear and quick answers.
    For clarifications:
    I have an ASUS A8N32-SLI DELUXE(with NFORCE4)
    Graphics: ASUS GEFORCE EN6600GT 256 MB WITH SILENCER

    The link for Cubase provides some answers, but a lot of people are still stuck.
    The thing here is that in the beginning of using my brand new desktop I had
    very low latencies: 3ms-in/4ms-out (256 buffer)wich is very good, then while re-using projects made on the Toshiba (as said in my first mail) the computer got the same latency.

    Meanwhile I saw there was a new driver for my graphics card & the motherboard(this one I won't install:seems to create troubles)

    And yesterday evening I ran a google search " audio latencies","audio latency","acceptable audio latency"..... and found some interesting sites
    and web pages that talk clearly about latency:

    http://soundwave.com/Htm/Articles/April/Audio_Latency.htm

    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan05/articles/pcmusician.htm
    (optimising cpu for lower latency) !!! BELOW THIS LINK-PAGE THERE ARE OTHER ARTICLES FROM SoundOnSound that are very interesting.


    So, in a way a conclusion is that, for the powerful cpu I have, I should have different buffersize-settings for different purposes:

    A.) Recording: Best at 128 buffersize(on my system: 3ms-in/4ms out ->
    that's the same as when I started but with 256buffer: sufficient for most recordings(vocals, guitars, horns)not to hear a "doubling" effect while recording)

    B.) Mixing and recording automations/vst-instruments: Best at 256 buffersize (on my system the same as the Toshiba* 6msin/8ms-out)


    So I have to take some peace with this, yet I imported yesterday a project from the Toshiba that was way too heavy for it and i had to freeze 2 StylusRMX instances/1Trilogy instance/+many audio tracks with a lot of inserts where the cpu meter showed 85% constanstly or even higher(with clicks and crackles)

    I tried this on my new system at buffersize 128(the half of Toshiba)
    and the result was quite positive as it took my deception nearly totally away: i could unfreeze all tracks and VSTinstruments and even add other instruments/FX while the cpu meter got maximum to 60%:

    That means my system is approximatively 4 times more powerful than the Toshiba.


    For the suggestion of audio drivers, I already tried to install the newest version, but it gave me both on Toshiba and AMD HIGHER LATENCIES!!!


    I'm currently TRYING to contact M-audio support which seems to be more difficult than climbing the Everest with a 200 pounds extra weights while your wife got away with the milkman and your dog did hara-kiri....


    So CONCLUSION the 6ms-in/8ms-out with 256 buffer is UNACCEPTABLE on such a powerful system, yet through the different-buffersize-purposes
    it is possible yet to work on very big projects, considering that you have to switch buffers sometimes, wich is a little incomfort but, after all it works and is stable, so I don't need to worry that much about "luxury-latency" details I think, and besides that M-audio Ozonic is a very good product,
    but is not in the TOP CATEGORY of audio recording interfaces....


    Thank you for the answers again,it could help<me further,

    I 'll continue my investigation.....,


    Biggnik
     
  6. Kent L T

    Kent L T Active Member

    This may sound a little weird but when I first found out about this problem i read a thread that suggested that if you are using a "high powered" pci-e video card it would add to the problems and that things might improve with a not so demanding video card that would not suck the pci bus of its bandwidth. You will most likely not get rid of this problem only minimize it unless a current bios update corrects the underlying problem.
     
  7. Biggnik

    Biggnik Guest

    LATENCY ISSUE

    Hello Kent,

    meanwhile I also found the conclusions you're advising me(I'm investigating like Sherlock Holmes on this one...) and I came to other advices:

    My mobo: A8N32-SLI deluxe might cause problems because of it's inherent
    NVidia Nforce 4: following the advice of Scott(Adk-proaudio) it's better to go back to a mobo with Nvidia Nforce3 or another board like " Asus A8V S939 VIA K8T800Pro DDR400 GBit Lan 8Ch Audio" which cost about half the prize of the current mobo I have.Meanwhile he said also that improvements were made on my board and that in some cases everything worked fine, yet the best would be like you suggest, a new bios with a fix(after all it costs more, so it's supposed to be more efficient!)

    My Graphics card: Geforce EN6600GT 256 mb with silencer; for this one I
    couldn't find a link that states I should go back to a 128mb-one.Do you have a link from someone who advices or explains why?

    Now I don't know if its' better to wait for some improvement from ASUS
    and keep my mainboard or to switch to one that is seen as fully operational?ANY ADVICE WELCOME?


    One thing thats' weird,Kent, is that the Cubase projects I created with the Toshiba(wich has a 128mb ATIRadeonX600) with the greater latency than I had in the beginning on M-audio Ozonic(-> 6.838ms-in/8.707ms-out)

    ONCE REOPENED(i didn't see when)ON THE HUGE AMD SYSTEM these have the SAME latency(I'm still waiting for a reply from M-audio) so this must be Audio-card related or not?As already mentioned the newest M-audio drivers give me even higher latencies on both systems even after re-installing.


    !!If I switch from mainboard, is it sufficient to make a backup of my HD's
    with Symantec Ghost and then re-importing everything with Ghost?

    I have a lot of applications that require quite long installs: StylusRMX+2EXPANDERS and +/- 16GB of own material imported with SAGE converter/Trilogy.....

    I'm really in doubt at this moment about changing motherboard and maybe
    soundcard(has anybody checked the new RME fireface 400?)

    Thank you very much for helping,

    Best regards,

    Biggnik[/u]
     

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