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help, I read new post rules, couldn't find answer

Discussion in 'Recording' started by ensumbledeux, Jan 16, 2007.

  1. ensumbledeux

    ensumbledeux Guest

    :? This is an incredible site. I did as requested and have been looking around almost all day. Although I gained must insight it did not respond to my particular needs. I have been drumming for many moons, in fact as a kid actually had a few lessons from Buddy Rich, due to my pops contacts. I have never sat behind the boards, but am familiar with the process. I am setting this up in the basement of my house. It's in Kansas, ample room with cement walls.
    Santa was good to me; ok I have a Boss BR 1200 digital recorder w/ monitors, Yamaha EMX512SC power mixer w/ Yamaha s115v speakers and plenty of various mics. My ?

    Should I 1st obtain the desired sound from the mixer and then run it from there to the recorder, or is there a better way. I am recording it in stages, not all players at once. Also can I somehow mic my kit, 12 mics, and patch them down to 6 0r 8 inputs without loosing original quality. Lastly, I have read many pros and cons with pc based recording. I am not moving my equipment at all, I feel the pc should be used to just back up my stuff from the br 1200, am I on the correct line of thinking?

    I read in your "read 1st post" to leave my e-mail. It is ensumbledeux at hotmail. com as well you can visit our web site trudyandes.com for any info about us. We focus on helping our returning wounded heroes as well as all of our Studs, who make this country what it is. Thanks for your help and be good.
  2. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    Sep 26, 2005
    ensumbledeux, will it sounds like you must've been nice instead of naughty and so Santa Claus took pity upon your poor soul?

    OK now, you have this fun all in one, recording studio in a box gizmo, a couple of microphones and a Yamaha PA system. This does not quite constitute a recording studio but a fine hobby project and PA system.

    You are putting 12 microphones on your drum kit??? I don't think I've ever put 12 microphones on a drum kit in my over 36 years? From the looks of it, neither one of your system components can accommodate 12 microphones??? What makes you think you need 12 microphones on your drum kit?? If I were you, I might consider 4 microphones on the drum kit? Bass drum, snare drum and overheads are all that are really necessary for a quality drum sound over all. And most likely, all you can really accommodate with your current system. Attaining quality? Quality can be had with a single microphone so your comment is somewhat of a non sequitur. Can you input numerous microphones into your Yamaha PA mixer head and then feedback into your all-in-one studio gizmo? Sure, you can use as many microphones as your PA head has inputs. Unfortunately, it appears that is only capable of 2 outputs to your all-in-one studio gizmo box? Will you lose quality that way? You bet your Isaac Asimov it will, unless you're truly adept at mixing your drums in stereo, in a single pass? Unfortunately, neither Yamaha nor BOSS, make available any decent technical specifications of either of these pieces on their web site. BOSS' page seems to have no decent technical specifications and Yamaha wants you to be a registered user to view their manual since they don't post any relevant information.

    Sorry to tell you this but you don't have quite the deluxe studio versatility you were hoping for. I believe the BOSS product may only offer 2 XLR studio style microphone inputs? More than adequate for the talented one-man band at home guy. While your Yamaha product varies in size and so, I don't know how many XLR microphone inputs it might have to provide you with? It only functions as a 2 track output mixer, that can be fed into 2 line level inputs. Now the BOSS has at least 2 built-in microphone inputs, that might yield you the capabilities of recording up to possibly 10 microphones into 4 simultaneous tracks, in a single pass?? Can you get a quality sound that way? You bet your Fender Stradocaster but it won't be easy.

    I don't believe your system is truly capable of recording 8 simultaneous microphones to 8 tracks? Not sure, it might? Although it might be possible that the BOSS unit might accommodate 8 simultaneous record tracks, your Yamaha PA does not offer a separate output for each microphone. It only offers a stereo mix of all the input sources, i.e. 2 output channels only. So if you wanted to be able to record more than the 2 microphone inputs that the BOSS unit has, you might need to purchase specific outboard microphone preamps that could plug into the line level inputs that the BOSS unit might accommodate?

    One interesting feature that your BOSS device does have is a USB interface. This interface allows you to transfer tracks from your all-in-one box to your computer and back! This, provided you have a computer with USB 2.0 connectivity and appropriate professional audio software with which to use it with? Being able to transfer an individual track to and from the computer for DSP effects and other processing will require the use of interlocking time code capabilities between the two devices I believe, in an above what USB 2.0 has to offer? But not owning one of those devices, nor the manual to it, can I be sure?

    Either way, if you are talented, you will be able to accomplish reasonable demo recordings if you can get truly creative with all of your tools at hand?

    A turd in hand is worth blues in the bush
    Ms. Remy Ann David
  3. ensumbledeux

    ensumbledeux Guest

    my gizmos


    I can not begin to thank you enough for your help, taking the time to dig into my stuff speaks volumes. If there is ever anything I can do for you please let me know. Do you enjoy country music? If so e-mail me directly, I can help you perhaps. Getting back to my 12 mics and the gizmo. If you go to musiciansfriend.com look up the Boss BR-1200CD Digital Recording Studio
    Product #241013
    The have the manual available as a pdf file.

    Santa was outstanding, or my best friend my wife, new double bass 14 piece kit, that was the ? about 12 mics. In any event if you could please let me know my capabilities, equipment wise it would mean the world to me. I am a drummer, my wife is a singer, please visit trudyandes.com explains all. I was wanting to lay some stuff down so when Iā€™m back in LA I can have my dad do the guitar stuff, he is quite accomplished as a picker, Glen is my pop. In any event thanks a million for your pearls of wisdom
    Travis Campbell

    This is about my mixer they do not have a link to the manual.
    e-knob Compression on Mono Channels(EMX312SC & EMX512SC)
    All four monaural mic/line channels on the EMX312SC and EMX512SC feature built-in compressors that can help to bring vocals to the front of the mix, give your guitars extra smoothness and presence, deliver more authoritative bass sound, and generally refine your mixes in a multitude of ways. These one-knob compressors are simple to use, too. There's no need to juggle multiple attack, threshold, makeup gain, and other controls - just set the COMP control for the amount of compression you need.

    SPX Digital Effects
    The EMX212S, EMX312SC, and EMX512SC all feature a selection of 16 top-quality Yamaha SPX effects - including reverb, echo, chorus, flanger, phaser, and even distortion - that can add the final touch to your live presentation. Yamaha SPX digital effects are widely recognized as being some of the finest available, and the effects provided in the EMX mixers live up to that reputation.

    Built-in Graphic EQ
    Graphic equalizers are provided for both the main and monitor channels, so you can effectively control feedback or tailor the sound to match the room and program material.

    Stand-by Mode
    When you're done with a set simply engage the stand-by mode to mute all mono channels while leaving the 2-track inputs active for background music playback while you're taking your break.

    Feedback Channel Locating (FCL) System
    FCL System indicator LEDs at the top of each channel light if the corresponding channel goes into feedback, so you won't have to fumble around searching for the channel that needs adjustment

    12 Inputs
    All three mixers in this series offer a total of 12 input channels - four for monaural microphone (incl. Phantom Power) or line input, plus four pairs that can function either as monaural microphone inputs or stereo line inputs - providing you with a versatile mix of input capabilities for a wide range of applications. If you need only microphone inputs you can use up to eight mic channels. Or if, for example, you want to play recorded background music during breaks (that's one stereo channel), and you have a keyboard player with a stereo-output keyboard (that's one more stereo channel), you still have six mic/line inputs. If you use all four stereo pairs to handle stereo line sources you have four channels available for mono mic or line input. This is a very versatile system that can adapt to your needs.

    High Power For Main and Monitor Speakers
    These powered mixers certainly don't skimp on power. From the EMX212S with 200 watts per channel to the EMX512SC with a solid 500 watts per channel, there's a power configuration to suit any application and venue. All models also feature a power mode switch that lets you use the two power channels as a stereo amplifier, or you can use one of the channels for the main speaker(s) and the other to drive monitors with a separate monitor mix set up via the channel MONITOR controls. Use 1/4", or Speakon output connectors.

    Yamaha Speaker Processing
    Yamaha Club-series speakers are fine performers in their own right, but with Yamaha Speaker Processing you get extra-smooth highs and enhanced low-frequency output.

    Durable, Lightweight Design
    The EMX powered mixers offer the ideal combination of outstanding sound performance and easy handling. They're lightweight ā€” only 10 kilograms (22lbs.) ā€” and feature conveniently located handles for maximum carrying comfort. They're also built tough to withstand the rigors of use on the road.


    Maximum Output Power
    @ 0.5 % THD at 1 kHz 220 W/4 O
    130 W/8 O (UA)
    130 W/8 O (H) 300 W/4 O
    190 W/8 O (UA)
    180 W/8 O (H) 500 W/4 O
    350 W/8 O (UA)
    320 W/8 O (H)
    Frequency Response -3, 0, 1 dB
    20 Hz-20 kHz, ref to the nominal output level @ 1 kHz
    Total Harmonic Distortion Less than 0.5 % (THD+N)
    +14 dB @ 20 Hz, 1 kHz, 20 kHz, GAIN control: all nominal
    Hum & Noise Equivalent Input Noise, -115 dBu,
    Rs = 150 O CH 1-4 MIC/LINE: MIC
    Crosstalk @ 1 kHz -65 dB
    Input Connectors CH 1-4: XLR and Phone
    CH 5/6, 7/8: XLR and Phone
    CH 9/10, 11/12: XLR and Pin

    Phantom Power 15 V
    Graphic Equalizer 7 Band (125, 250, 500, 1 k, 2 k, 4 k, 8 kHz):
    Main (Stereo) and Monitor
    Digital Effects SPX Digital Multi Effector
    (24 bit AD/DA, 32 bit Internal Processing): 16 Programs
    Power Amp. Mode Main L/R, Main (L+R)/Monitor
    Foot Switch Effect On/Off
    Dimensions (W x D x H) 442 x 274 x 286 mm
    (17-3/8" x 10-3/4" x 11-1/4")
    Weight 10 kg (22 lbs.)
    Power Requirements/Consumption 120 V 60 Hz, 270 W 120 V 60 Hz, 400 W 120 V 60 Hz, 450 W
  4. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Distinguished Member

    Sep 12, 2002
    NYC New York
    Home Page:
    ensumbledeux, thanks for coming by. Unfortunately I think this is probably the wrong forum to post this question, that's probably why you didn't find your answer. I'm going to move this over to the recording forum and maybe they can help you a little more there.
  5. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Moderator

    Feb 23, 2005
    Glen Campbell was an idol of mine growing up, an incredible player. Several years later, I got to mix his show at the Players' Choice PGA Championship, he even let me play his Hamer 12-string. Nice guy.
    I know that the Yamaha PA mixer/amp is a nice piece of gear, and has a lot of features that are great for...LIVE performance applications for a fairly small musical group. I don't believe that I've ever seen a group with a double-kickin' drummer that could get by with even twice the power that your rig has. In addition, even with the most advanced technical designs today, a self-contained mixer/amp will not provide the lowest noise levels to record with. Those boxes just don't compete with the low noise floor of modern digital recording gear. Then you get to the mic inputs, which, contrary to what the Yamaha marketing folks would have you believe, are primarily designed for vocal mics, acoustic guitars, and keys. Live drums really tax the dynamic range of these inputs, and can easily "smear" their sound, especially if you're not experienced with mic selection and placement. Finally, the speakers (I have OFTEN recommended the Yamaha Club Series on the Live Sound Forum here), while an absolute bargain in quality and perforance for LIVE use, were never intended to be recording monitors. Between their design and that "Speaker Processor" built into the amp, you are "tricking" your ears to believe that the mix is "right", with hyped low and top ends. For recording, a reasonably "neutral" speaker is required. You need to hear what is REALLY going on, so that the mixes you do will translate to a variety of systems. So...
    A USB mixer (like those from Alesis and Phonic, the folks that made your Yamaha) will feed the recorder you have, allowing you to expand the # of mics you can feed to it. Unfortunately, that USB port is still just a stereo signal, but the Boss can only handle 2 tracks at a time that way, anyway. If you want to multi-track your band, you really need to look at a Firewire mixer (Mackie Onyx, Alesis) feeding a recorder / PC that will accept that.
    More $$....It never ends, does it?
    Tell your Dad he's made a LOT of people very happy over the years. And thanks for that.
  6. ensumbledeux

    ensumbledeux Guest

    thank you for you insight and the kind words
  7. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    Sep 26, 2005
    I did a little more research on your new Yamaha mixer. So if you have what I think you have, your first 8 inputs offer insert patches which can be used as isolated outputs to the other numerous line level inputs available on your BOSS all-in-one gizmo. That coupled with the 2 onboard microphone preamps could give you the capability of up to 10 simultaneous record tracks to the all-in-one gizmo? When you plugged into the insert jacks, you would most likely use a mono 1/4" plug and only plug it in, to the first "click", which is generally the output "ring" of the "tip ring sleeve" insert Jack.

    Interestingly, it's possible you may be able to utilize the built-in limiters on those first eight channels? But since there is already an insert Jack, the limiter may actually follow the insert Jack and so would not be available at the inserts output? Even still, you'll have these nice, microphone preamps, to plug into your all-in-one gizmo. Since the Yamaha mixer may have more than 8 inputs, the remaining inputs can be bused to auxiliary sends 1 & 2 and/or, to the stereo output. This would allow you to take the large amount of ancillary percussion hardware, plug microphones into those remaining inputs that do not have inserts, creating a stereo sub mix from auxiliary 1 & 2 or the stereo output, to feed another 2 inputs on your all-in-one gizmo. There you go, 12 inputs +, to 8 to 12 simultaneous record tracks on the all-in-one gizmo.

    Still a lot of internal routing, busing and patching will be necessary and will probably resemble a Rube Goldberg contraption? You're going to need plenty of cords. You should possibly think about buying stock into Guitar Center or Radio Shaft?

    Time to start having fun!
    Ms. Remy Ann David
  8. ensumbledeux

    ensumbledeux Guest

    thank you

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