Help with Console, card,PC setup for online "jamming"

Discussion in 'Location Recording' started by mcolquitt, Jun 8, 2011.

  1. mcolquitt

    mcolquitt Active Member

    Hello folks I need some assistance with my setup. This is one of my first post's here and am not certain that it is even prudent for me to ask for this help. If it is not please accept my apology in advance.

    I play online in various jam-rooms and I do it somewhat regularly so I am really hoping someone has a solution.

    I am aware that one can't use a pro/semi-pro soundcard like M-Audio or Focusrite products for "Full duplex" type needs. Meaning if I connect to an online Jam room like camfrog, youtubes "the stage" or and want to play some lead over a backing track nobody on the internet will hear both me and the backing track at the same time. This being the case I am constantly having to switch out speaker cables from my on-board sound-card (RealTek HD) to my fast track ultra (previously my FW-410) whenever I want to 1. record or 2. play online.

    I am wondering if there is a way to connect the FTU so it is somehow feeding and or receiving the on-board card's audio so I don't have to constantly switch my monitor cables from one to the other.

    My setup routing is and has always been All instruments, mic and sound processors to Mixer. Mixer stereo outs L/R is split to feed both units (Left into RealTec and Right into input 1 of FTU) my monitors are powered Klipsch and they are what I am having to switch all the time. I hope you all understand what i am asking for...thanks
  2. mcolquitt

    mcolquitt Active Member

    wow not even a guess??
  3. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    Set up a profile where your on-board sound card is disabled and all the junk operating system audio as well as your input monitoring is sent out through the FastTrack Ultra.
  4. mcolquitt

    mcolquitt Active Member

    Thank you so much for answering this question of mine. I am, however not exactly certain of how to do this. Are you saying I can use my FTU as full duplex soundcard? Meaning I can stream audio in and out so the world can hear me (over the web of course) play a lead part over a backing track? If so you have made me one happy camper.

    I tried for weeks to get someone from M-audio to help, they wouldn't i appreciate your assistance more than you know.

    Kind Regards,
  5. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    I've never used a Fast Track Ultra, but I see no reason why it could not be set up to be the main default computer audio input and output device. I suggest you get it working like that so a simple audio program such as Audacity can record and replay using it.

    However, to go beyond that and carry out live jamming over the internet requires applications to work bi-directionally (full duplex) on your computer. These applications generally have nothing directly to do with the type of audio I/O device you have installed. If you get the audio to the stage where Audacity works correctly for recording while playing (tracking), and you still have no interactive internet operation, this points to where you need to direct your efforts. Audio today, jam tomorrow.
  6. mcolquitt

    mcolquitt Active Member

    Hey thanks again for jumping in here. I should have shared more with you when I originally posted. I actually have a home recording studio. I use Sonar (I have used cakewalk for about 12 years now) and various outboard effects rack mounted fed into a console that feeds the rest of my gear and applications. I don't tell you this for ANY other reason then for you to know that the things you tell me and the terminology used will be completely understood.

    I was told and have since learned to know was a fact that my previous card a FW410 from M-Audio was indeed not able to process I/O for what I am asking for help here on. But from what I am beginning to understand is that The fast track ultra being USB and not FW ( I don't know why this makes a diff) IS able to do as you suggest.

    My question would I go about configuring it? You say just shut down the realtek and point the system to the FTU?
  7. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    The FW410 has only 2 mic pre-amps where the Fast Track Ultra has 4. The audio quality is probably much the same between the two interface. Disabling the on-board sound card has nothing to do with whether your external audio interface is via a FireWire or USB connection.

    At a quick glance, I can't see that you have said what type of computer you are running or what operating sytem, so I can't be specific about how to turn off the internal sound card. However, as an example, the Windows 7 Control Panel has an entry for Hardware and Sound, and within that, an entry for "Manage Audio Devices" in the Sound paragraph. You can turn off internal audio devices from there.
  8. mcolquitt

    mcolquitt Active Member

    OK thanks let me try these suggestions and see what I can get rolling...thanks
  9. mcolquitt

    mcolquitt Active Member

    I am sorry I am lost, Boswell. I don't use the FW device anymore. My question was, in a nutshell, can the M-Audio fast Track Ultra operate full duplex? So I can stream backing tracks and my live lead playing out over the internet.
    Meaning can I play over a backing track and have the www hear both sources of audio?

    I am on Windows 7.

  10. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    If by "operate full duplex" you mean can an I/O device record and replay at the same time, then both the FW410 and the Fast Track Ultra can do that, but maybe the online streaming software performs better with one than the other.

    Where are the backing tracks coming from? If these are from files already on your computer, it's up to the streaming software whether these can be included in a real time jamming session with live instruments. What you may be able to do is record these tracks to an MP3 recorder off line and then play them along with your jamming as though they were another live instrument. The Fast Track Ultra is a better interface for this approach as it has more than two analog inputs, so you can connect the stereo output of your MP3 player to a couple of channels as well as your guitar. You would have to make sure the streaming software for the site you are using can mix multiple channels on its input side.
  11. mcolquitt

    mcolquitt Active Member

    Hey Boswell I want you to know I really appreciate your attention and help on this problem.

    Well I was told by M-Audio that the FW 410 would not operate full duplex or be used in a "what you hear" mode like soundblaster cards and other less pro cards like Realtek and so on. That really isn't of importance now, however as I don't use that card anymore.
    The mp3's or backing tracks are from my computer. Stored and played from my PC. The thing I can't seem to configure is getting the Fast Track to play the backers from my system out over the internet and have the same internet audience also hear my live guitar as I play over the pre recorded tracks. I CAN do this with my Realtek HD card but as I have stated I am then forever switching out my speakers from the realtek to the Fast track for the different applications I use.

    I hope this is more understandable...I know I make the issue sound more confusing than it is....:)
  12. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    It sounds to me as though you have interface or driver compatibility issues when using the streaming software for real-time jamming. If your RealTek card works for this application, I suggest the simplest thing is to get a passive switch box that you can use to switch your loudspeakers between the RealTek and the FastTrack interfaces. There may be more elegant ways to solve the problem, but at least the switch box would be cheap and avoid all the plugging and unplugging every time you want to change over.
  13. mcolquitt

    mcolquitt Active Member

    Not a bad idea...I am ashamed I need to ask you this but what is it exactly that I would ask for and do you have any ideas who would sell such a thing? The switchbox solves the issue and it sounds like it will then screw elegant..I just want functionality.

    Thanks again very much for all your kind assistance.

  14. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    There are lots of types. What sort of connectors do the speaker leads have on them: TRS jack plugs, TS jack plugs, RCA (phono) plugs ?
  15. mcolquitt

    mcolquitt Active Member

    TRS mini jack plugs. Standard Purple and Green.

  16. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    Now I'm a bit confused. Are you saying the left and right leads from the two speakers have a green TRS plug on one speaker lead and a purple TRS plug on the other? The colour codes for standard sound card jack sockets have green as a stereo line output. Purple is sometimes used as a rear right output in surround-sound systems.

    I think you will have to use an RCA stereo switch box and then get appropriate TRS minijack-RCA leads to connect to your two sources. It it's the right one, for the speaker outputs you can buy a lead that has a stereo minijack socket on one end breaking out to two RCA connectors to feed from the switch box.

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