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HM-1 and Phase

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Vaylence, Feb 7, 2006.

  1. Vaylence

    Vaylence Guest

    Has anyone noticed if their HM-1's are out of phase? Mine certainly are. I had one up on a cab with a 57 (I believe), and waBLAMO insta phase prob. Both mics up on the grill. First I thought maybe the mic cable is wired wrong, but nope. It seems the mic itself is wired backwards.

    Has anyone else run into this?
     
  2. David French

    David French Well-Known Member

    Are you absolutely certain of the phase relationship bewteen the rest of your signal chain?
     
  3. Vaylence

    Vaylence Guest

    yup. preformed out of phase on two different systems.
     
  4. David French

    David French Well-Known Member

    Wow, that's crazy. I guess it's just a wiring mistake! Have you talked to Kelly about it?
     
  5. Vaylence

    Vaylence Guest

    Yeah I guess it must just be a wiring goof. I suppose physists should come up with an uncertanty theory involving Canada and China HAHA just kidding. Still like the mic though
     
  6. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    it can happen
    mics can be flipped and so to can speakers

    in fact some manufacturers can be reversed from one another
    it can be a historical things and the methodologies in them meaning of pos and neg

    if your interested it's best you do some googling and look for old white papers and perhaps AES stuff
    deep in the JBL, Altec, Neuman and Shure past you should find some info about into basket and out of basket standards
     
  7. therecordingart

    therecordingart Well-Known Member

    This is interesting.....I work for a mic company, and I've never heard of a mic being wired out of phase...not even by mistake.
     
  8. stickers

    stickers Active Member

    mine were out of phase as well. my first pair didnt sound alike at all. Then the second pair I got were out of phase and I returned them too. My main issue though with the HM-1s is that they are too open sounding for cardiods.

    in email, kelly said it was normal for the phase to be that way....I didnt think so...but oh well.
     
  9. freaky

    freaky Guest

    So, the mics were out of phase with eachother? Or is every mic wired the same (backwards)? My pair sound just fine to me, although, I've never combined them with another mic...
     
  10. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    I have one SM57 that works in the reverse direction
    they we all delivered at the same time and from the same batch as far as I know
    8 units in total

    just out of interest
    your company uses what to define a positive direction ?
    capsule into the mic for pos on pin 2 ?
     
  11. therecordingart

    therecordingart Well-Known Member

    I'll ask one of the engineers today and get back to you.
     
  12. therecordingart

    therecordingart Well-Known Member

    Kev,

    According to the engineers...pin 2 always + (hot). According to service...they don't recall any issues of being wired differently.
     
  13. stickers

    stickers Active Member

    Both of my HM-1 had phase reversed. the wave form would start as a trough (and I'll say I wasnt miking a drum cuz I know people in here will say "well, if you were miking the top skin of a drum it should do that..." as to lure me back in here to post again.)
     
  14. therecordingart

    therecordingart Well-Known Member

    You guys just saved me from purchasing an HM-1. Thanks!
     
  15. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Art...Dont be so quick to judge these little beauties. I love mine. The proximity effect on them is so pronouced that you can actually get that Edward R Murrow radio voice with little or no effort. It seems a simple task to check (if you buy a pair) to make sure they are wired the same. A simple repair really. @$99 a very simple repair considering the benefit.

    And to stickers....yes, there is a rather wide field for a cardioid ...it is a condenser so it will be a bit more 'open' than a dynamic....and as far as some trying to lure you into posting.... :shock:
     
  16. took-the-red-pill

    took-the-red-pill Active Member

    Whew! That was a close one! Good thing you were saved from getting screwed out of an entire 'C note' for a condenser mic! :shock: Sorry, I've slapped my hand for being a smart ass.

    But seriously, maybe there was a bad batch, and some incorrectly wired ones slipped through the cracks? I say that because I have tried mine together in stereo, and with my Audix OM2's and had no issues.

    Is it as simple as marking the mic(s), and flipping the phase on the board, or is the problem bigger than that?

    Keith

    Hey, maybe there is no Mandarin translation for "Always make pin #2 hot..." :-?
     
  17. TheArchitect

    TheArchitect Active Member

    I haven't had any problems with mine. They do what they were designed to do and what I bought them for. They aren't for everything but they with a good pre they are pretty versatile
     
  18. redbort

    redbort Active Member

    doesn't placement have a larger effect on what degree in the phase cycle you are at? meaning it's constantly variable?

    or since LF are so long, they should start with a positive signal?

    maybe you mic is backwards, and you should face it the other way?hehe
     
  19. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    I dunno, but it seems like we're all tails chasing our respective dogs...

    Simply open the mic and look. I can't imagine it's that hard to get into one, I mean 82 year old asian women and 8 year old chinese boys put these things together, it shouldn't be rocket science to take it apart...

    If it is out of phase, rewire it.

    Or - tell Kelly about the problem. I'm sure that would be covered under his warranty...

    J.
     
  20. jdsdj98

    jdsdj98 Active Member

    My GT66 is 180 degrees out from all my other mics. I've never thought anything of it and simply reverse it whenever I use it. After all, that phase reverse button on a mixer or pre is meant to be used occasionally. That's why it's there. That, to me, is a much simpler fix than rewiring your mic. At that point, you're voiding any warranty you may have.

    With a $99 mic, you could argue either way that a voided warranty is or isn't a problem. I'd argue that it is. But then again, if you're gonna test your tech skills, what better way to do it than on a cheapo mic?
     

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