Hooking up pa

Discussion in 'Location Recording' started by dhardy, Oct 2, 2009.

  1. dhardy

    dhardy Guest

    I have a pa that i need a little help with. I have a behringer mx2442a mixer, a dbx223xl 2way stereo 3 way mono crossover ,crown 1000 and a crow xti 2000 . I would like to hook this up to get the best sound i can get . I have it hooked up in mono , but i dont like the sound. I forgot to say i have jbl 225 for my top cab. and 2 18 inch subs.
     
  2. jg49

    jg49 Well-Known Member

    dhardy "I have it hooked up in mono , but i dont like the sound." They way you say that it sounds like you are thinking it will sound better in stereo. It won't. In fact most smalll and many large venue PA systems are mono. You have decent speakers, preamps, and crossovers so guess where your weak link is? BerrySpringer gear touts a lot of features, padded specs and some of the worst sounding crap on the market. You don't say anything about mics but they can make a huge difference as well.
     
  3. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    We also don't know which series of JBLs (the JRX are JUNK) and how you're setting the crossover, all sorts of variables here, please elaborate...
     
  4. stealthy

    stealthy Guest

    I bet you are getting alot of noise from that mixer. Try setting the crossover while playing a song you know well on CD or ipod or something. If that can sound good, then you are on your way. Gain structure could be an issue as well.
     
  5. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

    Are you using this with the dbx unit as a biamp or triamp setup?
    Need more info on what you have setup now to figure out the best sound!!

    Basically mixer out to dbx....dbx out to amps....CH1 to 2000 amp to subs...CH2 to 1000 amp to upper cabinets...everything should be set to mono! Are these TR series JBL's?
    set your mixer levels properly, set the dbx up properly, set the amps up properly and it should rock like a sock!
     
  6. dhardy

    dhardy Guest

    reply

    !

    Basically mixer out to dbx....dbx out to amps....CH1 to 2000 amp to subs...CH2 to 1000 amp to upper cabinets...everything should be set to mono! Are these TR series JBL's?
    set your mixer levels properly, set the dbx up properly, set the amps up properly and it should rock like a sock![/quote]

    using 2000 for tops ,got everything hooked up like you have it. The speakers are jbl 125 jrx series . I dont have a eq should i get one an what would you suggest i get, and where should i hook it up.
     
  7. dhardy

    dhardy Guest

    my mics are shure ,i dont have a eq should i get one ,what would you suggest and where would i hook it up
     
  8. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

    dhardy:
    I would make sure you have the dbx unit configured correctly first, make sure the mixer outputs are good, amps are good, speakers are good before going out and hooking up an eq.....?!!!?
    Use a CD or some source that you know is a good source and start there work thru the system, see if you dont have something set wrong....
    keep going thru the chain making sure it sounds good and then figure out which piece of gear sounds crappy...
    How do you currently have the dbx set up?
    Which switches, settings and modes do you have setup now?
    Have you tried it without the dbx unit and just tested the output of the mixer into an amp and speaker?
    Test and check each part one at a time....maybe its the mixer, amp, speaker?
    When you say you don't like the sound, what specifically don't you like or maybe describe the sound your hearing...is it buzzing, hum, distortion, level, muddy?
    Your mixer looks like it has 3 band eq for each of its inputs....have you tried tweaking those a bit?
    Try brightening up the highs bring up the lows, mids....there's your eq right there!
    Hard to tell from your brief description whats going on.....
     
  9. dhardy

    dhardy Guest

    as far as sound goes i dont have enough low end. The highs seam to be good.but the bass and kick drum dont have the thump im looking for. I have'nt had a chance to set the dbx while playing.iwill try that to see what happens. Thanks for your help
     
  10. jg49

    jg49 Well-Known Member

    You have the gain set correctly for these two channels? You have tried boosting the low and low-mid equalizers some? You mentioned you have two subs are they powered correctly (enough wattage?)
     
  11. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    Hi dhardy,

    I'm not busting your hump, but so many sketchy details, I barely know where to start....

    what kind of 18" subs? JRX?
    what frequency are you using on the crossover?
    which Shure mics?
    where exactly are you putting those Shure mics? - kick drum in particular -
    DI or mic on the bass amp?
    do the drums sound good acoustically to begin with?
    what size venues are we talking about?
    is the mixer clipping?
    are the amps clipping?
    is the crossover clipping?
    good cables?
    balanced signal all the way to the amps?

    these are ALL factors.

    Any information you can provide would be helpful.
     
  12. dhardy

    dhardy Guest

    subs where custom made,mics are sure 58,the drums sound good ,mic in front of kick, places we play around 300 people,the mixer does not clip but the amp i use for the subs does.cables all seam to be fine the company that made the subs said they should handle any size place i wanted to play,maybe the power amps to small crown 1000
     
  13. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    what frequency are you crossing-over the subs on the dbx ?

    an EQ would be a good addition, and you would put it inline after the mixer, and before the crossover. But if you're clipping the sub amp already, boosting the low-end on an EQ is probably only going to make matters worse.
     
  14. dhardy

    dhardy Guest

    Would a bigger amp for the subs help or not.Is that the reason for clipping.
     
  15. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    If my "custom-made" subs were of good quality, I would put the bigger amp on the subs. If they were so-so, I probably would not.

    Again, crossover frequency is important. Do you know where you're crossing them over?

    Rather than running 2-way, you might be further ahead running fullrange + sub. Which would let the dual 15" in the JRX try to go lower.

    And make sure someone hasn't programmed an unfavorable EQ or additional crossover point into the XTi amps - which could limit your low-end.
     
  16. dhardy

    dhardy Guest

    Thanks for your help i had the dbx set wrong got a better sound . The only other guestion is the power amp on my subs clips allot do i need to get a bigger power amp
     
  17. IIRs

    IIRs Well-Known Member

    Yes. You would usually need as much power for your subs as for the rest of the system combined, if not more. Try swapping your amps around.

    Are they both XTi models? You don't need the cross-over if so: the amps have DSP built in that can do that for you, as well as time-alignment delays, EQ and limiting.
     
  18. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    If you're driving the sub amp too hard, you either need to provide more wattage, more sub cabinets to move more air, or both. There will be a limit to what you can get out of the system you have. If you've reached that limit and aren't happy with the sound, you'll have to consider upgrading somewhere. More speakers / more amps or better speakers / bigger amps. It's possible to add a low-mid cabinet too to fill out the bottom end. But again, you're into another pair of speakers and amp.

    A good compressor inline with the mains can help with the clipping, a cheap compressor will just degrade the signal.

    It's true the XTi series, has crossover capability built into it, but I think you should continue to use the dbx crossover.

    The internal crossover in the XTi, routes the Lows (below the programmable crossover point) to Channel 1 of the XTi, and the Highs to Channel 2. Since you don't have two identical amps, you're better off doing what you're doing. You can't make both channels do sub unless you are using System Architect software.

    If you had two identical amps, then you could possibly eliminate the crossover and put one amp behind each stack. This would also keep your speaker cables nice and short - which has serious advantages. Then use the crossover on each amp to divide out the sub-freq. and send the rest to the full-range cabinet.

    But since you've got a ?1000 and a XTi2000, I'd use it with the dbx crossover and put the XTi2000 on the subs. (An XTi4000 or bigger would be an improvement if the 'custom-made' subs could take it.


    I hope that helps. There are a million variables and we have no idea what kind of band you're working with, what sound you're going for, what kind of rooms you're working in, or even all the details about the PA. Mics and mixer, EQs and compressors all play a part in your clipping. But the truth is when you're starting out and learning your system it will boil down to this:

    REALITY | WALLET | EXPECTATIONS

    You either need to adjust your expectations, (turn it down and/or EQ out some of the bass you're trying to compensate for) or spend more money (wisely) to achieve the sound you have in mind. And if you get to a point where you CAN put together the ideal system - then you will have other hurdles to overcome. (Adequate electricity in the venues and transporting it come to mind.)
     
  19. IIRs

    IIRs Well-Known Member

    Only if you tell it to! The internal cross-overs are fully and independantly configurable for each channel, assuming you have a laptop with the "System Architect" editor software installed:

    http://hiqnet.harmanpro.com/downloads.php
     
  20. IIRs

    IIRs Well-Known Member

    Oh sorry, missed this line: "You can't make both channels do sub unless you are using System Architect software."

    I couldn't imagine using the on-board DSP without plugging in a laptop!
     

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