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how do u kill hat bleed in the snare?

Discussion in 'Drums' started by thevessels, Sep 4, 2003.

  1. thevessels

    thevessels Guest

    ok i have a 57 pointed toward the middle of the snare..simple basic mic placment...
    is there any compressor settings or some secret technique or placment to kill some hat bleed?
    chris
     
  2. Mundox

    Mundox Guest

    Well obviously it is important that the back of the 57 points to the hat. (as much as possible)And get the mic in there real close,like an inch above the rim pointing towards the skin. Another thing is to use a smaller hat in general. Use a bottom mic too and you should be fine. ;)
     
  3. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    AS I wrote in another thread, try a side snare. The bottom mic generally provides that ugly "broken sound". The snare side is more detailed and there will be no big hihat leakages. Also, be careful with the mic gain.

    Watch out for 57´s:
    SM57 is cardioid.
    Beta 57 is Supercardioid.
    If ya have the back of the Beta facing the hihat, it will capture some hihats. 120 degrees is the null point, while 180 degress is the nule point for the cardioid pattern.


    I am looking for a 10" recording hihat so as to kill as much leakage as possible. If ya find soemthing, please inform me. I travel to the USA at late Ocotober .

    Hope it helped ya
    :w:
     
  4. white swan

    white swan Guest

    Good idea: get as much of the snare sound as you can from your overheads. Experiment with OH placement to maximize snare/minimize hats.
     
  5. wwittman

    wwittman Active Member

    Aside form positioning the mic for maxium rejection, and getting it in as close as you can to the snare...
    one trick i used to use a lot (much to many a drummer's chagrin<g>) is to put a bath towel OVER the hi-hat (that is, actually punch a hole in the towel so it falls down over the entire hat) and have the drummer actually play THROUGH it, bu hittiing the towel.
    A mic underneath gets the hi-hat sound and it really cuts down on the leakage into both the close snare mic AND room mics.
    It will NOT, however, win any drummer popularity contests.
     
  6. realdynamix

    realdynamix Well-Known Member

    :) Wow, that is interesting W, the first I have heard that one. It would take a lot of the extraneous noise away from the hat as well I expect, leaving just the hat action. What EQ are you using, if any, to restore any deadening of the hat?

    --Rick
     
  7. sign

    sign Guest

    Chris

    I've posted this quite a number of times in a thread about drums/snare/hat bleed thread: try a Beyer M201 and you'll kill two flies in one stroke.

    A better snare sound and less hat bleed, plus the bleed that remains will sound better.

    Another very good mic is the Sennheiser MD441.

    Needless to say, a crappy drummer who hits the hi hat harder than the snare is a waste of time anyway.
     
  8. Rod Gervais

    Rod Gervais Active Member

     
  9. Johnson Cabasa

    Johnson Cabasa Active Member

    You don't want the back of a 57 pointed at the High Hats. A 57 is hypercardioid which means that the back is going to pick up high freqency stuff. You want to position the mic so the high hats are in the null of the pickup pattern. You find this postition by moving the mic around until you get the best snare sound with the least amount of highhat in it.
     
  10. by

    by Guest

    You could try gating the snare, so that it opens up only when the snare is hit. If it sound too obvious (meaning, you hear a big rush of hihat when the snare is hit) you could try adjusting the gate so it doesn't close all the way. This probably isn't the preferred way of geting rid of hihat bleed, but I think it's often better then trying to eq it out!

    wwittman - i'm reaqlly interested in trying that bath towel trick out!! unfotunately, the drummer on my next session can properly play the hihate!
     
  11. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    I gotta go with the Beyer 201 or a Beyer 422 both reject from the rear incredibly well and sound wonderfull.WW that is a very interesting trick...and you are so right, i could see this pissing a drummer off easily! but then....who cares.... :c:
     
  12. white swan

    white swan Guest

    Can someone tell me if this is true? I always thought it was cardioid! I learn more about how little I know every day! :D
     
  13. sign

    sign Guest

    The 57 is a cardioid mic, as you can see on the Shure website. http://www.shure.com

    The M201 is a hypercardioid as you can see here:
    http://www.beyerdynamic.com/com/product/index_s.php3?find=M201&Submit.x=8&Submit.y=1

    Peace.
     
  14. tsunami

    tsunami Guest

    Hi guys,
    Try this.. ducking hat's track with compressor trigered by snare drums!
    Adjust the right amount so it won't duck too much.. anyway, snare usually falls on down beat, so you won't feel that missing hats that much!
     
  15. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    AS Johnson also wrote, please read my comments about SM57 and Beta 57
    The towel trick is fine but what about opening and closing hats all the time?
     
  16. Southwind

    Southwind Guest

    Best solution: Have drummer lay off the hat and lay into the snare. While it is counter-intuative, most of the GREAT recording drummers hit their metal very quietly and abused their skins. This allows OHs to come in and do a better job of getting the drums. Live drummers usually don't get this until they hear it in playback.

    Next best: move the hat out as far as drummer can deal with and play nauturally,

    Next: Careful and serandipidous (sp?) mic choice and placement.

    Last: Punch the bottom out of a styrophome cup and stick your sn mic in it lind of like a dog with one of those lampshade things keeping it from scratching its head... Liberally apply duct tape. This actually works!
     
  17. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    I think this is interesting but can someone clear it for me?

    "Last: Punch the bottom out of a styrophome cup and stick your sn mic in it lind of like a dog with one of those lampshade things keeping it from scratching its head... Liberally apply duct tape. This actually works!"

    I got confused with some words...lol
    Thanks for the idea bud!
     
  18. Mundox

    Mundox Guest

    This may cause a weird phase effect, and make the 57's pattern an irregular omni ,which may cause more bleed. But hey you won't know till you try! :w:
     
  19. davemc

    davemc Guest

    I agree with stuntmixer.
    Fix it at the source.
    I have a pair of 13" dark crisp hats.

    Pretty easier to try to get a drummer and band to come around.
    You play them back what you are recording.
    ie all hi hats.
    Then you show them no matter whcih mic is solo'd the thing you hear most is hats. Some guys evern the kick is getting lost almost. :(
     
  20. launchpad67a

    launchpad67a Guest

    All of these suggestions are good. The way I see it is to put up a "hi-hat" mic! This along with a "gate" on the snare will reduce those over tones your hearing.
    See, a mic on the hat will compensate for the bleed into the snare mic, and make things sound so much better. You won't be battling the difference, you will have two seperate tracks/mics to work with. One being high and crisp, the other being big and fat!

    Does that make any sense??


    Mike
     

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