How, for love of the almighty, do I rout my patchbay??!!!

Discussion in 'Patchbays' started by waterygrave, Nov 24, 2006.

  1. waterygrave

    waterygrave Guest

    I have a digi002, some api's in a lunchbox, some outboard eq, an MPC 2000, and a soundcraft 200 8ch mixer as well as a neutrik 24 channel patchbay. I am trying to figure out what the best way to link all of this stuff through the bay is. Ideally, I would like to not have to unplug and replug everything anymore. I want to leave some channels open on the patchbay that go directly in to the digi002 for instruments and mics. However, I would like the option of routing audio out of the digirealm into the mixer for subs and what not. I also would like the ability to rout certain digital instraments into the api's and eq's. My mpc has 8 outs, so I would like to have the option of running each output into the mixer or api's or the Digi002 dry. I have learned a little about normaling, but being new to this side of the musical creation stage, it seems a little Greek to me. I don't know if half of this crap is even possible, but I would really appreciate any advice on this matter. I.e, HHHHEEEEEELPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!![javascript:emoticon(':roll:')size=18][/size]
     
  2. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    waterygrave, you don't live in New Orleans do you?? I hope not?

    Oh hey, you have a single patch bay! What you really need is a couple three of those things. My control room has over 15 of those! Getting the idea now??

    "Normaling" generally means that whatever is plugged into the back of the top row, will automatically normal, or connect, down to the bottom row. So generally, you want the outputs from your recorder and other devices to appear on the top row so that they are automatically connected to the bottom row which is then plugged into your console inputs. Conversely, you need a second patch panel to take the outputs from your console on a top row, to the inputs of your recorder and other ancillary devices. If you don't want something to be normaled, there is usually some kind of diagram with your patch panel that allows you to eliminate the normal and have just some free jacks to be used as you wish without them going anywhere unless you plug a chord in to route that to where you want it.

    Routing in a control room can get rather complicated. Remember old movies with the telephone operators switchboards? It really is like that and so you have to change the way you think in order to be able to handle complicated routing within a control room.

    Microphones are best left not connected to patch panels. It is much better for microphones to be plugged directly into your microphone inputs but it is not impossible to use patch panels if you believe you need to have microphones on your patch panels? I have that feature in my control room but rarely use it. Usually you can use any microphone input and utilize the insert or channel strip output, through your patch panel, to route anywhere you want it to go. 1/4" TRS (Tip Ring Sleeve = balanced connectors) which can also be used with unbalanced equipment if you are careful how you wire things?

    It's so easy these days to purchase yourself a patch panel. In the past, I've had to make more than 3000 solder connections to wire up a full 24 track control room. Of course you will still end up doing a lot of wiring of connectors because there's only so many gizmos you can buy before it becomes Mickey Mouse. I hope this dearth of information helps?

    Mini Mouse (hardly)
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  3. waterygrave

    waterygrave Guest

    Starting to see clearly now, the rain is gone.

    I just use waterygrave all the time as my alias. I am part of so many forums and product sites that my every decreasing memory forces me to stick with my first (albeit slightly morbid) username.

    I see now that I will have to buy another patchbay soon. I just have one more question to ask. What type of cable should I get and how many cables will I need? My mixer has 8 xlr ins, 6 xlr outs, 8 1/4" ins, 8 1/4" returns, and 4 1/4" aux's. My 002 has 10 1/4" outs, 6 1/4" ins and 4 xlr outs- and then there is the 8 output mpc. I would like all of the connections to be balenced. What kind of cabling can provide this? From what I understand, only xlr is a balenced connection. I am losing my mind with this stuff!!! I know what I want the outcome to be, but I can't seem to explain it. I feel like a blind chinese man who was placed the middle of queens that is trying to find his way to Houston st.javascript:emoticon(':x')

    Thank you for taking the time to answer my convoluted questions.
     
  4. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    waterygrave, yes it becomes a little overwhelming doesn't it?

    A balanced versus non-balanced or unbalanced, does not require 3 pin XLR connectors. Any connectors such as a 1/4" TRS (tip ring sleeve) is a balanced connector and can be used as a balanced connector and/or for stereo headphones and such which are unbalanced. So the 1/4" TRS connector is quite versatile. Now the problem is, it's good to know what of your equipment features balanced TRS 1/4" connections? Some may simply be TS, like a guitar cable, which is unbalanced. Many small consoles use unbalanced TRS 1/4" connectors for the inserts, where you would patch in a compressor/limiter. In that configuration, you will usually find that the ring will be the send to the compressor input and the tip is the return from the compressor or, input back into the consoles signal path, with a common ground which is the sleeve. An unbalanced signal can easily feed a balanced input by simply using a TS 1/4" connector which will short the ring to sleeve as it should be. It also works the other way around. Which is to say, you can take a balanced output from a TRS or XLR connector to feed a unbalanced input by simply connecting the ring to sleeve or XLR pin 3 to the ground on pin 1. On a XLR, pin 2 should usually be the "high" or hot side as is the tip on a TRS 1/4" connector. It is also not necessarily essential to always connect the sleeve or pin 1 to ground on a balanced circuit. That is because the signal is actually carried differentially on the tip in the ring and/or pins 2 and 3 on a XLR. Why would you not want to connect the ground? With line level inputs and outputs, one can run into ground loop problems, which causes hum and buzz, and other pieces of equipment. Frequently that problem can be remedied by simply lifting the ground at one end of a balanced circuit. With unbalanced, you absolutely need the ground to complete the circuit (which isn't exactly true but could cause a shock hazard in which many guitarists have been killed when their lips touch the microphone Grill screen and they are holding their guitar, creating a connection) so beware when you hear hum and buzz and start lifting grounds. It's simple but complicated at the same time.

    My last question is, did the Chinese guy deliver or not deliver your food to Houston??

    Taking simple complexities to a whole new level
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  5. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    waterygrave, yes it becomes a little overwhelming doesn't it?

    A balanced versus non-balanced or unbalanced, does not require 3 pin XLR connectors. Any connectors such as a 1/4" TRS (tip ring sleeve) is a balanced connector and can be used as a balanced connector and/or for stereo headphones and such which are unbalanced. So the 1/4" TRS connector is quite versatile. Now the problem is, it's good to know what of your equipment features balanced TRS 1/4" connections? Some may simply be TS, like a guitar cable, which is unbalanced. Many small consoles use unbalanced TRS 1/4" connectors for the inserts, where you would patch in a compressor/limiter. In that configuration, you will usually find that the ring will be the send to the compressor input and the tip is the return from the compressor or, input back into the consoles signal path, with a common ground which is the sleeve. An unbalanced signal can easily feed a balanced input by simply using a TS 1/4" connector which will short the ring to sleeve as it should be. It also works the other way around. Which is to say, you can take a balanced output from a TRS or XLR connector to feed a unbalanced input by simply connecting the ring to sleeve or XLR pin 3 to the ground on pin 1. On a XLR, pin 2 should usually be the "high" or hot side as is the tip on a TRS 1/4" connector. It is also not necessarily essential to always connect the sleeve or pin 1 to ground on a balanced circuit. That is because the signal is actually carried differentially on the tip in the ring and/or pins 2 and 3 on a XLR. Why would you not want to connect the ground? With line level inputs and outputs, one can run into ground loop problems, which causes hum and buzz, and other pieces of equipment. Frequently that problem can be remedied by simply lifting the ground at one end of a balanced circuit. With unbalanced, you absolutely need the ground to complete the circuit (which isn't exactly true but could cause a shock hazard in which many guitarists have been killed when their lips touch the microphone Grill screen and they are holding their guitar, creating a connection) so beware when you hear hum and buzz and start lifting grounds. It's simple but complicated at the same time.

    My last question is, did the Chinese guy deliver or not deliver your food to Houston??

    Taking simple complexities to a whole new level
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     

Share This Page