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i5 3570K vs video card

Discussion in 'Recording' started by sturoc, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. sturoc

    sturoc Active Member

    With the Gen 3 i5 3570K cpu comes HD 4000 video
    So on my new DAW build does it behoove me to not run a separate video card ?
    In addition to being the main DAW for the new studio,
    there will be some video work and rendering etc done on this machine for soundtracks, videos etc.
    But No CG or other extreme stuff.

    Does using the built in graphics 'tax' the chip at all in a multi-task scenario ?

    Ya know, come to think of it video editing and audio recording will NOT be running at the same time.
    that would be a multi tasking nightmare !!!

    If an "outboard" graphics card is in order are there any suggestions for one ?
    Let's stay below $100 usd though please, and a quiet one as well.

    System fyi:

    i5 3570K
    ASRock Z77 Pro 4 mb
    8 gb ram -for the burn in, then will move up to 16.
    OCZ SSD's
    Lacie Firewire 400 card
    W7 for os.
    Liking the option for dual monitors.
  2. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    How much are you willing to spend? I try to stick with NVIDIA but I am biased. I've had some bad experiences with Radeon cards. That being said, Radeon tend to be cheaper and can be easily as powerful. If you're looking at low mid level cards, the GTX 550 Ti is under $100 and is fairly powerful. The GTX 460 is a little more expensive and a little more powerful.

    These are not high end gaming cards however. They will get you by.
  3. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    it's easy to find what the system requirements for any given DAW are. check for them by doing a Google search for example: system requirements Pro Tools 10

    .... NVIDIA cards are required for PT ... if you don't get the system requirements correct in the first place you will run into problems getting support from your DAW manufacturer.
  4. sturoc

    sturoc Active Member

    Should have put in the DAW specs Cubase 6, yeah I know it's "old " now, but I am stingy for change and getting upgrades.
    the only system spec requirements are for cpu / ram, nothing mentioned for video graphics,
    'cept for "screen 1280 x 800 resolution".
    But if your re-read my op it states how I would use video on this machine.
    So conflicts with sequencer software are not the direction of my post.

    More so Is the onboard graphics enough for that purpose or will it be beneficial to add a card ?
  5. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    A decent card will help. Otherwise you're leaving it all to your cpu to crunch.
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    ok Cubase 6 system requirements.
  7. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    This is what I've heard. That Intel graphics runs off the main CPU. And I hear it's crap. When dealing with companies like Avid, for video or audio work, ProTools already indicates it is NOT compatible with ATI graphic cards. So along with that, I also imagine it's probably not compatible with Intel graphics either? So while you're not ProTools, currently, how do you know you're not going to go there? So I would think that a good graphics card such as the NVIDIA cards seems to have the highest compatibility and performance over most everything else. Perhaps not initially necessary for your purposes at this current juncture in time? But don't get dismayed or bummed out if you find that your Intel graphics won't cut the mustard.

    Many of those other graphics cards are designed for gamers or for professional industrial applications and they can get quite pricey. In the region of $300 or more. Those cards are practically computers in by themselves today and play a large role in many of the newer software releases by being able to process the graphics in addition to the CPU. So if you're doing heavy digital video, digital compositing, color correction, huge multitrack audio productions, you probably want a decent NVIDIA card? For your amateur enthusiasts productions, your computer will probably be adequate? As good as anything else on the standard market. So, how do you know you're not going to end up doing anything with video?? Are you crazy? All songs have to have a video today. Software packages like Sony Vegas, that I use most often, is a combined multi-track audio program and a very comprehensive multi-track compositing and video editor. Nightmare? Only if you can't handle it? And as a production professional, you're supposed to know how to do this. So don't tell me what you're not going to do because... I know better. You know this issue will arise. And if you don't? You're still living in the 20th century which was 100 years ago. Think about it? They saw Felix the cat on a cathode-ray tube, in 1928. When are you going to discover television? I just got through doing a full-blown theatrical release of a 1 1/2 hour documentary film that included plenty of music as it is a "rockumentary". This involved up to nine layers of digital video compositing and up to eight tracks of audio in order to also generate a 5.1 surround mix. Not only did I include color correction but I also included skin tone smoothing and to particularly improve the women's facial features, along with my specialty mix of music audio and dialogue. Where the music is loud throughout but none of the dialogue is lost. All performed within Sony Vegas except for some of the rolling titles at the end and only a couple of extra VST plug-ins. Some of the music tracks were captured with my Crowmobile.com truck, some of it with API & Yamaha. Some of it with a cheap Behringer six input PA head. And all of it captured with SM57/58 Beta 58's. Some of it mixed in analog. Some of it mixed in Audition. Some of it mixed in Samplidue (and the first time I touched Samplitude7). And nothing I spent more than 20 minutes per song on. Some of this was even from screwed up audio tracks that I had to unscrew. Ya know from those other " professional ", audio guys when you tell them you want instruments on one track and vocals on another and they get that all screwed up. Then ya have to use all sorts of phase cancellation tricks to sort things out the way you wanted them to be. Which can get a little dicey. So when somebody gives you a isolated vocal track and isolated guitar track with a vocal on it, you have to take a vocal off of the guitar track so that you can mix it in properly and create the stereo soundscape you need. I'm not happy when other professionals screw up the audio for me. So it creates extra work for you. And then you have to throw the vocals out of phase, so they do not clash with the Center Mono dialogue. But you still need to keep the low-frequency spectrum, in phase and Mono. So I had to play a lot of tricks to remix plenty of songs off of a CD yet still retain its original character. And that's crazy processing you have to have straight in your head to create the perfect mishmash. So you have to think into your audio while you listen. Basically, this required that I do all the wrong things to the audio to make it right. And it's something I hope we'll all see on one of the Discovery Networks channels, soon? That & perhaps some other film festivals for best audio track for a documentary?

    Not too many good things come in at under $100, unfortunately. Except for 57 & 58's.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  8. sturoc

    sturoc Active Member

    Oh my , Dear Remy was it a long day yesterday ?
    You unearth some interesting points. The gist of which seems to advise to future proof the machine.
    Which is, at least for the next 5 years, what I'd like do. But not into following the "race" of latest, greatest ,cpu, vid card etc.
    Not knowing the true aspects of Intel's on chip graphics,
    I just did not want to spend more $$$ on a video card if I didn't have to.
    As for your Pro Tools 'plug' who knows, I never say never !
  9. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    I've really been quite surprised in the past, when you see the same software through different manufacturers. graphics cards. I really do prefer the way the NVIDIA cards look/display. And for whatever reason, they also seem to be the most compatible with the softwares', we all use.

    No wonder I feel weird tonight? It's not a full moon.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  10. sturoc

    sturoc Active Member

    Here's something to throw into this:
    I ck'ed out a bunch of "commercial" DAW builders, almost all of them are using the Radeon HD5450 as their stock video card. Yet they do offer upgrade options to way better cards that are more suited to hi end gaming.these builds are with i5 and i7 cpu's.

    I went ahead and got a XFX Radeon 6450 with a nice rebate attached to it, so will see how it does once the system is complete and booted up ...
  11. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Not sure where you're getting that info:

    Element VFX - Performance | Rain Computers

    The 5450 has a very low rating. In fact it is much lower than the Intel graphics you referred to in your original post.

    PassMark - Radeon HD 5450 - Price performance comparison

    ADK does use this as their base video card but for compatibility's sake the go to card will be NVIDIA. Not that I would consider AVID's standards to be a touchstone in regards to what is acceptable for audio but rather that AVID is a worst case scenario.
  12. sturoc

    sturoc Active Member

    Rain was the only one i viewed that didn't offer a Radeon 5450 card as a standard graphics card, I searched 5-6 other companies.
    Now I am not partial to that card but it's interesting that they would make that their default.
    Some even started with no card and only using embedded graphics on the CPU itself. Hence the op question of whether to use the embed graphics HD4000 and how does that affect cpu performance when running the audio software.

    Sure other cards are better but one is also paying a much higher price, taking up two slots, have fans = noise, and seem suited towards the gamer.

    Just trying to figure out what would be decent for under $100.
  13. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    If you're running an i 5 and relying upon the CPU power for your graphics, I think you'll be really upset at how well your multi-track audio software with real-time effects will run? And relying upon a graphics card, not recommended by any particular software/hardware manufacturer is taking a shot in the dark. Under $100? Shouldn't be a problem. Because you don't need a graphics card designed for high-speed gaming. But acquiring and NVIDIA graphics card of virtually any type, I think, would be a better bet? There are too many compatibility issues regarding graphics cards when dealing with professional audio requirements which ain't gaming requirements. So a lower end NVIDIA card would probably guarantee you better compatibility with virtually any audio software than someone else's graphics card? As indicated, Avid requires a de facto standard of NVIDIA. Not much of anything else will work well with their software, any of their software. Other manufacturers are not quite as restricted in their recommendations. Nevertheless, most of us here, have learned what works and what doesn't. Do you want to spend $100 just to learn something won't work? Sometimes that's exactly what needs to be done. So you can learn from your mistakes. We consult each other to find out, cumulatively, what works best. Best doesn't necessarily mean $100. I can say that a SHURE SM-57/58 is the best microphone you can get for $100, hands down. A $100 unknown quantity condenser microphone, won't come close to that 57/58. Not even moderately close. Based on this knowledge, what does that tell you about somebody's $100 bargain graphics card?

    It's called buyer beware.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  14. sturoc

    sturoc Active Member

    Morning ,
    Ms Remy do you get a check from NVidia ?? Though seriously, I have looked on a couple of forums and seen some NVidia users having trouble when running PT software, other users using various other ATI Radeon cards just fine etc.
    With so many users and so many different configs I think it's hard to peg one type of card to one type of software.
    While not a huge fan of PT: i remember how way back they were very proprietary with outboard gear etc and it was damn expensive to boot.
    I used to think they owned all the 'approved ' manufacturers !

    But I digress, Ms Remy's mic analogy is a very good one and a valid point.
    Will continue the research, it's been good for the graphics card world learning curve. As mentioned a few times I do not want to stress the cpu by using it's onboard graphics when I can just install a good vid card and go worry free when the track counts, plug ins, vsti's, etc get way up there.
  15. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    I only wish I did get paid by companies like NVIDIA, SHURE, Neve, Neumann, API. I've had plenty of job offers to become a sales person. The only thing I really sell is myself. That and what works well.

    I think anybody that purchase a pre-built and configured DAW, are already technically inept. It's just like folks that purchase a Dodge Charger and think it's an actual race car. It ain't. It just gets you from point A to point B. And a preconfigured DAW, is just another method of keeping their cash flow moving. It doesn't mean it was prebuilt for ProTools but is merely a computer you folks are less likely to screw up. And that will work with most multi-track audio software packages. No guarantee that it works for all without having to reconfigure something they have already configured. So where is the advantage in purchasing the preconfigured DAW then? Certainly seems idiotic to me? That's because real engineers are, well, real engineers and other folks are just wannabes, who will never be, because they don't have a basic understanding of much. All these junior engineers want is drive through. And your stuff will always be of that wonderful mediocre quality. So if ya really want to be a decent engineer, you learn what you need to learn and you build up what you need to build up. You don't get it at a drive-through.

    A lot of this new stuff makes for great toys for children. Everything today in the technology market, has been turned into toys for children. The professional stuff is still there for the professionals to use. If you want to be a professional you must become a professional. And that doesn't mean entry-level bargain equipment and preconfigured computer thingies. It's a commitment. A lifelong commitment. A commitment to learning. A commitment to improving one's self. A commitment to improving one's art. A commitment to deliver a professional product. Which has nothing to do with marketing or advertising hype and BS you see in magazines and YouTube. It's a world of naïve clueless wanna be beginner engineers out there all, ready to share their incomplete knowledge and lack of experience, with You. Wow! I'd definitely listen to somebody that has two months of experience recording their band in their basement. Though all tie you, what's best. And it's those people you have to watch out for. I won't tell you what's best. I'll tell you what I've used over my 41+ year career and what works for a competent, highly experienced, professional engineer, me. So whose opinion would you find most valid? Jimbo Smith who's been doing it for a couple of months or a 41 year + professional? And... I'm not on commission. The difference here is between a sales dude, who's never done it for a living. And somebody who's only done this, ever, for a living and nothing else. So... are you feeling lucky... punk? (Dirty Harry circa 1970s)

    Powerball is up to $425 million! You'd better buy a ticket before you waste your money on that computer.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  16. sturoc

    sturoc Active Member

    Good Stuff there RAD.
    The gist of what you wrote is what I've been dealing with in person lately asking certain loaded questions of computer parts sales guys and gals. Then wait for their answer like hooking a fine trout.
    It amazes me to see just how the sellers cater to consumer based mass users . Of course it's profit to them, But there is another side of customer service for those in need and most of these outlets do not provide the experience and knowledge based sales people to orbit in that realm. Kinda of disappointing to me especially when I get tired of online research and then go in to talk to a real person. Most of the time lately I find it's a letdown as many do not really know serious DAW gear so i take their recommendations with a block of salt.
    Hence the situ I am in now of asking you guys, doing tons of research, learning alot in the process.

    I too feel the same about the DAW pro-sumer builders. I only visited their sites to see what they were into as far as parts.
    Believe most units are over priced and would feel strange bout buying one where the parts choices were made by someone else and you don't really know much about those.
    As for that Powerball well the more that buy a ticket the less chance of winning, Ha ! a chance ? that's like tossing a message bottle in the ocean and think it will wind up at your feet next time ya go to the beach !
    My money is better suited to my immediate needs.
    Have a good evening or morning .
  17. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    Yeah, the newer stores like Guitar Center, all have a lot of nice sales guys. Guys that are really into this stuff. The unfortunate part, is they are generally into it, only as far as retail sales go LOL. Many of them have degrees in the recording arts & sciences yet, selling this stuff, is about the only job they can get in the business.

    The pro-audio dealer I've been dealing with, I've been dealing with since 1978. They are one of the largest and most successful independent music stores in the country, Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center. Carl has been my go to sales guy there since ' 78. And the family that owns the company, well they are really fine folks. They provide great ccustomer support. And in many ways, I have also found that to be true with Guitar Center, although on a more corporate level, of course. And so I also have a go to guy at Guitar Center, Falls Church, Virginia, Christian. Especially when it's the name of a very Asian looking American born and bred Filipino. So not only can you work out deals with these guys, they'll always serve you right. And that's becoming less the norm today. But that's the way so many things are on the retail level, today. That's why it's good to deal with a company that actually caters to audio professionals and not just the local band musicians and such. And many of these retail stores also have their professional divisions such as GC Pro and Chuck Levin's, Sweetwater and others. Because when you deal with the professional division, you're likely talking to someone much more highly specialized than the retail sales guys. These are the guys that also go to all of the big audio and broadcast conventions where you can speak directly to them. It's also great going to these professional audio conventions, when you can go right up to the manufacturers, play with their gear, ask your questions, peek inside of the gear and have a listen to it. However listening to stuff at a convention is a bit of a double edged sword because of the incredible background noise ambience. So it's really not a place where you can make good evaluations but at least some evaluations. The manufacturers also feature product demonstrations and other useful information. So while it's not cheap to go to those (even if you get free tickets from your local music store), it's like going to college for one half of a year over the period of a single weekend. And where people will tell you how great that thing sounds you're listening to when you think it sounds like crap LOL. Because there's an awful lot of that there are also. Everybody needs to make a buck. Nobody wants to really work for a living. We just want to record music. Good thing some of us do it for a living and if I can make a living from it today? Most can't. I'm not. Times are not good. The world economy is collapsing. And musicians will continue to be poor just like we've always been throughout time. Making a half billion dollars on your hits today, probably will never happen again? Not unless you have the tendency and the money to go GAGA over something? Because it takes money to make money.

    I might just buy $100 of lottery tickets tomorrow? It certainly lowers the odds. Haven't you ever been hit by lightning? I have almost won Grammy, Emmy & Soul Train awards. And yeah, I was hit by lightning. So my odds to win the big Powerball are just as good. You just never know? But like rock 'n roll, you got to play to win or to get chicks.

    Tweet tweet (225 pound chick)
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  18. sturoc

    sturoc Active Member

    O.K. so how bout this question: what are all you guys using and with what chip ?
    This is just for reference as I have the i5 3570k already
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