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audio I'd appreciate some feedback on this mix

Discussion in 'Fix This MIX!' started by Kerfoot32, Mar 21, 2013.

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  1. Kerfoot32

    Kerfoot32 Active Member

    Any suggestions welcome. This is a mix in progress.

  2. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    First off, I think you did a kick ass job of recording and production. Most of the sound of the mix is also rather apropos in relation to the genre. But here is where some of the problems are. Huge low-end simply turns into even bigger more huge nondescript, mud. Of course you still want that pounding, hard rocking butt kicking feel. And ya don't get that with all of this sloppy flabby, low-end. So it needs to punch and punch hard. And this is where you're going to have some real fun now. This is the cool part.

    The first thing one needs to do to tighten this stuff up would be the first puts some high pass filtering on the bass guitar and the guitars. While this will thin them out, it will also remove some of that dense energy. You'll get that back when you put some compression on it. But make no mistake, attack and release times that are too fast will take away that aggressive punch and energy. So you slow those attack times down to stupid slow. With the release time, a certain naturalness will be realized at slow release times. The faster your release times, the greater the density will become. But you will hit a sound barrier at the wrong speeds that will just watered down that aggressive energy and density. So that might require some readjustment, when all of the other tracks are brought in? And then I bass guitar will always have lots of presence with a tight hard-driving low-end that never drops out.

    To get some solid thud into the bass drum, we are going to do almost the same thing. High pass filtering. Probably followed by a little bowl/notch filtering around that cardboard box like frequency spectrum between 200-350 Hz. Then you're going to run that into a compressor. Again stupid slow attack times. And you'll tweak the release time until the resonant tone becomes as dense and noticeable as the initial, thud. And add even more hard rocking, tight bass drums smacking sound, you are going to invert the phase of only the bass drum track. The culmination of all of this will then be passed into a noise gate. Then you'll start jumping around the room hooping and hollering and freaking out! Simply because you will have found and discovered the new Messiah that will work, oh so well with your demonic music LOL. And then you'll know you're up there with Van Halen and Metallica and all of the current folks who I don't know. Otherwise it's otherwise good muddy rock 'n roll. Try it on one of those boom boom car stereos the way it is currently and tell me what you think? Mud. It'll be mud.

    Then you'll run back and try my suggestions because that's what all the real engineers do, like me. All drums get gated but not the overheads. All drums get high pass filtered. So you want tight, tight, tight, lots of presence and your high end is fine. And then when you hear the boom boom car's stereo, three blocks away and you can make out your song... Ya know, ya did, good kid. And that's because an ounce of punch is worth a pound of sound. And right now the drums are sounding like a bunch of wet pillows. Pretty cool but just not authentic metal.

    And then there are all those ambient room/reverb plug-ins ya get to use on those different drums. Take the real room and combine that with plenty of algorithmic spaces and you'll be wondering why anybody needs a big room for huge drums? And this will really bring the articulation of the drums to be much more profound and cleaner while being even more bombastic sounding. So that's a lot of tight processing that will require a bit of experimentation to get just right. And once you get that figured out, you'll never not do it. And that's the only missing element. The rest is superb. Vocals sound great. Quality performances. Good musicianship. Everything that needs to be there is there.

    In short, all I'm really talking about is just some more refinement on your mix. And it will kick butt, leaving bruises in your behind. And it may also save those from sudden cardiac arrest? That is if you build in the right kind of of clarity with that hard-driving punch and not W00FW00FW00F Slop Slop Slop WOOFW00FW00 Slop. That's not exciting. But CPR on your chest along with a vigorous physical shaking will make people take note. They won't not be able to. Right now the recording sounds a little like a death rattle? Then maybe that was the desired character? I really can't say. Not my song. Not my concept. I mean some rock 'n roll I just want to make it sound like I lost a bar fight. And because if that sounds like you won the fight? It's only going to sound like Rocky and not Rock 'n Roll. Which Sylvester Stallone might appreciate but not a whole lot of others?

    One more try now... you can do it. I know you can. You've got what it takes.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  3. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    I'm still waiting? What happened to ya? This should only take a few minutes to fix? At least for me. It's different for everyone. Do you want me to have a go at it? I do these all ITB as most others here would. Ya gots to pay me to do it on the Neve in the analog control room which really isn't fair. That's why I stay ITB here. You've got to know what you need to do is all right there available in your stock multitrack software. No additional plug-ins are necessary but they are certainly nice to have when ya can afford them. And they cost just as much as many of the hardware pieces do. Which makes a lot of those quite impractical for the low cost bedroom studios while being still unnecessary unless someone specifies a specific plug-in they've used in the past, elsewhere. Then ya charge them more.

    Many of us were very nice and thoroughly stalked studios, still rent another piece is a professional equipment as per clientele requests along with the appropriate rental charges. So when someone requests a plug-in you don't have while utilizing your services, you'd have to charge them extra to acquire that plug-in. And it would be yours and not theirs, upon completion. And you would have to devote the additional time to installation, learning curve and removal should they want it returned. Which would require an additional fee that would not make it worth their while. And that's business. It's different when it's a piece of rental hardware that must be returned.

    So I assume your project is coming along nicely? Usually no news is good news.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  4. Kerfoot32

    Kerfoot32 Active Member

    Alright I uploaded it to the same link
  5. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    don't encourage him Remy.

    better that some of the other stuff you've posted but still not even close to anything listenable and i'm not talking about the recording. it's the performances ....

    what the hell happens at 1:00? it falls apart ... and the bass solo is horrid ... the vocal unison part where the music (if you call it that) drops out not in unison ...

    i can't believe the talent pool is that shallow in your area ... surely there must be someone with ability and musical chops for you to record?

    don't stop delivering pizzas ..

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    canstock6361556.jpg canstock6361556.jpg canstock6361556.jpg
  6. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    No, really, honestly, I liked this better. The snare drum definitely has more of that right kind of snap and the vocal sounds great! But honey... that low-end... sounds like a wet basement. And to get that low-end you have to lose the low-end. This brings up the articulation and you'll bring up the level. I mean that is, once you've lowered the low-end, gotten rid of the mud, they're of course will be less energy. This will require that you physically will have to turn it up. But then will be able to hear it and appreciate that growling low end and that bonkers rattlesnake bass drum line. Right now it's a bunch of monkeys beating on wet pillows with sandbags. And monkeys don't articulate anything very well. Like me. At least you want your bass drum to be understood.

    Really, truly, it sounds like you have a major problem with your monitoring. No way you could be listening to this through speakers. Might sound cool in headphones only? It sounds like one of those kinds of mixes. We can tell when we hear things like that. We all make the same mistakes... 40+ years ago. And then ya learned to only turn up the low frequencies stuff to the point where you could barely hear it in your headphones and then... back it down a notch and you should be OK. Better to have too little than too much. Really. Honestly. I kid you not.

    Also having less low-end means that, the low-end will not modulate the more important mid and high frequency spectrum because that always sounds like doggie Doo Doo. That's different than having a solid low-frequency beat pumping with the music with plenty of punch. Good solid punch. And that is completely what you are missing. Because that punch does not come from turning up the low-end. Just the opposite. And then you get to use compressors, limiters and noise gates. Which gives you a slew of extra knobs and dials to play with. Don't forget to ask some additional EQ. You'll need to notch out stuff around 200-300 and sometimes 400 Hz where it really hurts. Because that is the world renown cardboard box sound if ya don't do that. And you should barely see the compressor/limiter even twitching with every bass drum clobber. And then you gate the bloody thing. It's just like tightening your shoelaces. Otherwise they come off in the mud. And then your little sock gets all muddy also. And then do you put your foot with the muddy sock back into the inside of the otherwise mostly un-muddy inside of the only exterior muddy shoe? And that's what this second pass sounds like LOL.

    Take three... it's rolling... you can go now.... No... your other left. I mean... your mother left.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  7. Kerfoot32

    Kerfoot32 Active Member

    Do u troll everyone like this? I really don't care about the talent of the bands, just about learning some mixing tips. Remy has been very helpful. And I definitely think the lack of treatment in my control room is a huge problem here.
  8. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    I agree,

    But to add,

    The OP asked for help on his mix and never mentioned one thing about needing help or opinions on the talent. I think you are crossing the line and getting personal, Kurt.

    This was very insulting. I know you mean well, but I don't think this is coming across that way? You and Remy are beginning to look like a couple. lol

  9. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    lol no ... not a couple and we don't even communicate often.

    and sometimes people need to be insulted. i stand by my remarks.
  10. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    Chris, we most certainly are a couple. He's just the boy version of me LOL. And I can certainly understand Kurt's response. The snare drum down the local definitely jumped more to life upon my prior suggestions. And that was done well. He got it. Obviously the low-end is presenting some kind of not obvious to him, problem. Even though I said something about the low-end issue, earlier. Kurt's frustration is indicative of not hearing any change there, whatsoever and I concur. In fact I actually think the low-end got even worse. But the high end, snare drum snap, vocal was right. Which at least indicated some kind of attempt was made. And we are both old-time crusty engineers that have been barked at many times in the past earlier on and we all survived it and learned from it. Your music teachers yell at you when they know you haven't practiced. You are yelled at by disgruntled customers. You get yelled at in the military. Everybody survives it. Sometimes it's good to know that you're not following directions correctly. Ya know, a reality check. And if it wasn't for that... everybody would think that a Chinese condenser microphone costing $300 is better than an SM-57. And then all the talk would be about what is the best worst microphone to buy LOL. Yeah... the one that says Chinese studio condenser thingy. Those are the best of the worst with only carbon button coming in behind those. I really can't put down those Chinese condenser microphones that badly. I'm still using 8 Radio Shaft, Pressure Zone Microphones from 23+ years ago. That was truly the best bang for your microphone dollar. It was like getting a $300 Crown for 180% off. And I really bought those by the bag. One big bag with 10 of those for $300 total. And sometimes you can find used 57/58's for almost just as little that still work fine even if they look a little ratty.

    I remember once making a recording that I was not asked to make. There was no money. But I was at the beach and having fun on this job. And on the first evening after the lectures, they had a band. And I asked the band if they would like me to roll something since I was expected to run the PA which I hadn't been told. I certainly did not have the right stuff. I think the funniest thing was when I took a pair of Sennheiser HD 414 headphones... plugged them into a direct box I had and stuff that into the simply awful HP, onboard sound thingy. Through an XLR to 1/8 inch adapter. And that was my bass drum microphone LOL. All that extra distortion worked well. Didn't hurt the guitar any either by much. I was drinking heavily and most of these people were there due to their battle with alcoholism. Stupid me. I mean how else are you supposed to function at the beach in the evening with a rock band to record a rock band at night, at the beach? Everybody got upset. So I dumped the beer and smoke some pot, instead. They still weren't happy but I was. The band joined me. They knew how to make good recordings.

    The other two USB audio devices were capturing a pair of 57's lying on the floor, underneath the drum set, pointing towards the guitar amplifiers. The other USB gizmo was taking a feed from the recorder output of the Behringer PA/Amplifier head and another direct box on the bass guitar. And it's rather embarrassing to realize how good it came out. LOL. Good front guy singer performer, entertainer. And a couple of musicians I had recorded years earlier in other bands. So it's really funny when you can come up with if you just try. Especially when you're limited. All these selections get everybody in so much auditory purgatory. It's much easier to make good recordings when you don't have anything to make them with. It solves all that guesswork. You plug in, turn on, turn up and mix. And you wait until you're finished to vomit. And don't forget to smile. Then they know how easy it is for you to make them sound good.

    So ya just have to give this another go. Another whack. Another round of high pass filtering. Don't be afraid. It won't go away. It'll only get better. Well... better for people that like metal. Which... ain't me but, who's asking? I mean I don't have to like it do want it to sound good. And that's all I want for you. So turn down the god damned low-end! And don't come out of your room until you do a young man. That didn't come out quite right? I think one letter skewed what I was trying to say? I mean don't come out of your bedroom until you do a young man...?? Nope... don't think I got that right either? Maybe I need to turn down the low-end a little bit?

    Come on... you can do it... don't be stupid... I'm stupid... Kurt is stupid... Chris is not stupid... or at least he thinks he's not? And that's all that matters.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  11. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    This comment is stupid. One stupid comment after another.
    Who is worse?
    The OP never asked for our opinion on the talent, he asked for help on the mix. These are two different things. You are all over the map as usual, Remy and now as usual turning this thread into stupid.

    Words of advise. Dump the Voice Recognition Software. It sucks.

    Also, Remy, This has nothing to do with me so leave me out of your "stupid" hip shots. .

    Stay on track or I will remove your posts or you. I've had enough of this.
    That's what matters.

    Thread closed because it turned stupid.
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