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IDE Cables

Discussion in 'Accessories / Connections' started by yodermr, May 2, 2002.

  1. yodermr

    yodermr Guest

    Well I am putting together a new box. Ingrediant list is in some other post around here. Anyway a question on IDE cables - Please excuse if my tech jargon is off.

    I was told that there is a bug with Win2000 and DMA66 hard drive setup. Please correct me if I'm wrong DMA33 versus DMA66 or 100(?) use different cables. I was told that Win2000 and DMA66 can sometimes lose data and create corrupt files.

    THoughts on IDE cables? Is this bug real?, Should I use DMA33 or DMA66? Can all drives hook up to DMA66? Does it really matter?

    Thanks
    Mark
     
  2. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Who told you there was data corruption using ATA66 cables? The issue is that Win2000 with Intel chips don't properly have UDMA66 or 100 activated so you have to enter a registry setting to turn it on..simple as that..
    the only data corruption that would happen would come from a bad chipset such as the VIA KT133...or now the Intel 850 chipset.
    Otherwise if you are using ATA100 drives you would want to get the ATA100 40 pin 80 conductor cable. Depending on what CDROM or CDRW you have you may have to hook it up to an ATA66 cable...reccomendation is to use ATA100..gives you better shielding with the extra 40 conductors on the cable.
    Opus
     
  3. teddancin

    teddancin Member

    Don't know the validity of this, but I've heard that an ata 66 cable is the same as an ata 100 cable if it's under 18". I don't know how true any of it is, but both cables DO have 40 pin connectors that go to 80 wires.
     
  4. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    very interesting...good to see you back Ted....
    Opus
     
  5. teddancin

    teddancin Member

    Yeah, good to be back Opus, you guys kick ass, I wasn't gonna let a little user fee keep me outta here. The only thing I was worried about is if all the other cool people (other than mods of course) were going to stay around. I've learned so much here that I feel $24 is a steal.
     
  6. bgober

    bgober Guest

    i just wanted to put my .02 in here. which brings me to $24.02. if i were to add up all the money and time i've spent on books, magazines, support calls, bad product choices, etc...and then compare that to what i've leaned here in just the last few months (and they were free btw) and then take into account what this newly acquired knowledge (and there is so much more to learn) has saved me already in terms of $'s, time, and frustration :) . for those who may choose not to join,,,good luck :p .

    sorry, but i saw the opportunity and just had to express myself.
     
  7. yodermr

    yodermr Guest

    Yea I just put in my 2400 cents too - Well worth it ;) The billing group called and left a message to verify my order. Seems like they left me the wrong number to call back to - Hope they try to call again.

    Anyway without creating more confusion in my head,,, I have:

    Windows 2K
    Asus P4B266 845D chipset
    TEAC CD-RW DRIVE 24X10X40 MODEL CDW524E002
    Pioneer 6X DVD
    2 - Deskstar 120gxps

    I set up the drives with OS harddrive and CDRW on one IDE channel and Sound harddrive and DVD on the other channel. Hooked together with the 33 cables.

    If the suggestion is to use 66 cables throughout, what do I need to setup? I remember that the MOTO said something about changing something in the Bios to use 66 but what about the OS? One note: the way the case and drives are laid out I need to get one longer IDE cable than the standard 18" - Issues?

    Thanks
    Mark
     
  8. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    I am a bit curious as to why you went with ATA 33 cables? Also through the discussions here it is known that any optical drive will slow a hard drive down considerably. So why is it you chose to have two optical drives? One just to watch DVD's? It's definately up to you as to what you do with the machine but reccomendation to make it work with major performance is to ^#$% off with more than one optical drive!
    Ata33 cables won't get you there either..certain optical drives won't work with ATA100 cables..I've seen them cause the machine to hang or not boot up properly...
    At least go with ATA66 and as far as cable length..couldnt tell ya! I'll look into it or if someone knows...fess up!! lol
    Opus
     
  9. yodermr

    yodermr Guest

    Didn't make a concious decision to use the 33 cables. I had both and then was informed about this issue with Win2k and the 66 cables. So thats why I'm asking.
    As far as the optical drives. I used an older computer - really just to utilize the case. The DVD was their, no CDRW, so I got a CDRW, just threw in the DVD because I had it. I was not aware of the performance hit - Know what I can search on to find this thread?

    OK now I'm confused on 66 versus 100 cables. What is the difference and what do I need to know about my MOTO and drves to see if it will work?

    Thanks
    Mark
     
  10. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Ok...do you mean MOTU? If not what is a MOTO?
    The difference in the cables is the amount of individual wire runs on them. If you see 80 than it's an ATA100..ATA66 has only 40 and the individual wire runs are fatter..ATA100 you'll see the individual wires are thinner.
    It's shielding basically..all have 40 pins and 80 conductor wires..ATA100 as I said is thinner..the motherboard should have come with one ATA100 and one ATA66 cable plus a floppy cable.

    The issue with Win2k or Xp is that for Intel based chipsets you need to tell Win2k to use it. Or install the Intel Chipset driver..in your case the 845 INF driver..which is on the Asus CD that came with the mainboard.
    If not the INF driver than the registry edit on enabling UDMA66 which also enables UDMA100! That is listed on my optimization doc!
    Optical drives are a performance killer...any operation you do with optical drives takes up most of your systems performance..thus why burning a disk and doing other operations may cause errors...etc etc..
    The optical drive will cause a hard drive to slow down to the optical drives maximum speed and not allow you to get the proper throughput. So keeping an optical drive away from a hard drive is key!!
    The threads about that are scattered about here! Just take my word and others will tel you as well that it's the plane jane thruth! lol

    Opus
     
  11. teddancin

    teddancin Member

    Sounds like you're a little confused man. OK, here's tha skinny.

    1. It's ok to have 2 optical drives (I know I do... and hey, I have the exact same TEAC CD-RW that you do even though I just found out they put out a newer/just as cheap version that burns at 40x damnit!) just as long as you have one slaved off the other on the same IDE channel. No performance drops.

    ;)
     
  12. yodermr

    yodermr Guest

    OK I'm game. Well I'm off to get another cable and trying this out.

    I thought that the idea was to keep the OS hard drive and the sound hard drive on different IDE channels? I did OS/CDRW on one and Sound/DVD on the other.

    Sorry bad typing- MOTU

    Mark
     
  13. teddancin

    teddancin Member

    Nope, the thing isn't to keep the OS and Sound hard drives on different IDE channels... the way it works is that your IDE's channel transfer is only as fast as the slowest device on there. So if you have two of the SAME, or simmilar hard drives on there, then it should be fine. If you put a CD drive (much much slower than a hard drive) on the same channel as a hard drive, then your hard drive's only going to transfer as fast as your CD ROM will (this can vary, but usually it'll slow down your HD speed a ton). Good luck.
     
  14. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    ted is right on that aspect but ineed when you put two hard drives one IDE cable you will lose "some" read and write performance. Not a lot to lose sleep over but it does effect it. For DAW purposes it's fine. Me, I like to keep drives seperate in all ways possible. That's why I got a controller card!
    Opus
     
  15. yodermr

    yodermr Guest

    OK rearrnaged the drives. HD on one channel and opticals on the other. Installed the Asus inf driver. Booted right up. Everything looks good, back to tweaking. Just waiting on a new case fan and I can button it up.

    Thanks for the help
    M
     
  16. teddancin

    teddancin Member

    I don't use controller cards cause they kill your PCI bandwidth and have been known to affect your sound card's performance. There's even an article on http://www.rme-audio.com about problems that the cards have with IDE controllers (such as promise) because they hog bandwidth... I would point to a link for it, but I would have to look for it, and I'm trying to study for a test right now.
     
  17. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Ted,
    a controller card isn't going to effect your PCI bandwidth unless you are pulling serious track counts in and out at high bit and sample rates...doing 16 tracks of 24/96..yes
    doing 24 or more tracks at 24/48..I doubt it..
    So many people using SCSI controller cards can't be wrong you know!
    Opus
     
  18. teddancin

    teddancin Member

    Agreed, I just didn't want to chance it, cause there have been problems with the controller cards on the same bus as your suond card. Probably not REALLY an issue, but I've read that even some network cards will interfere with your other PCI bus transfers regardless of their IRQ's. Have you seen the new p4 2533's yet? Look kinda crazy opus!
     
  19. Tommy P.

    Tommy P. Well-Known Member

    Man, its stuffy in here. :D . Yeah, RAID comes in all flavors, some have onboard processors, some only have chips that run CPU intensive software routines, ect ect. I bet the ones with the problems had another underlying factor like a VIA686B chipset or something.
     
  20. ratbot

    ratbot Guest

    Hi, I'm new here; planning my next PC-DAW.

    Please, as well as the above considerations, I hear that round (vs. ribbon) IDE cables are superior. I can certainly see this in terms of reducing case clutter, but are they also more relaible or something?

    Thanks.
     

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