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Discussion in 'Recording' started by 187, Mar 13, 2005.

  1. 187

    187 Guest

    Hey im new here and currently buliding a home studio for professinal productions and recordings Im really having a hardtime finding a audio interface I was going to get the new audiophile 192 then came across the Emu 1820m which most of the reviews were great and it had alot of features and what not but there are WAY too many problems with this card even speculation that they are manufacturing a whole new line up since this one is really no good.So anyway what are some brands and modles I should check out?IM looking to keep it under $1000cdn is MOTU worth a look?What im looking for in a interface is reliable,durable,and of great quality all round,quite,clean,clear, you know just a great card oh yeah preferably pci/breakout box or a rackmount...a good amount of quality in/outs but not over kill.

    Also Im buying monitors this month and have about $1500-1600 to spend Im planing on getting the Alesis Prolinear DSP 820's is this a wise choice?anyone have any experience with these perticular monitors...or have any objections or other suggestions?

    lol,Im able to make my own desions im just not so quick to drop a shyt load of hard earned $$$ on mediocre gear!

    I need great quality gear with as close to "professinal studio" sound with out paying the "proffessinal" price...I will spend alot more than what other Home studio users are buying but I dont have the money to get "the best"

    example monitor budget
    Average aspiring producer=M audio bx5/8's Alesis Mk2's event tr 5/8's and so on roughly $500 -$600 a pair
    Established Producer=High end yamaha's/Mackies/genelecs/Dyaudio,etc anywhere from $2000-too gadamn much,lol
    Me=somewhere in the low end of the high end...
     
  2. David French

    David French Well-Known Member

    Hi and welcome to RO.

    First just let me say this - it's 'professional', as in 'profession'. ;)

    OK, so what style of music? How many tracks do you need to record simultaneously? What other gear do you plan on interfacing? PC or MAC? We need a lot more info before we can help. Also, you should think about speding money on acoustics before anything else.
     
  3. 187

    187 Guest

    lol,I know my spellings is not the greatest but any way I'll be producing
    hip hop/R&B general "urban" music,I will be using synths/sound modules/vsti's /samplers and mabey some live instruments ie guitar/bass uhmm Im set up in my bed room for now.Im a pc user.

    Heres my specs just incase its asked for at a later time.
    P4 3.0
    1024 mb DDR 400 ram
    two 200GB hard drives in a RAID 1 config
    (will be Getting an additional external drive in the near future)
    450 power supply...that should cover the important things

    I shouldn't need to record too many tracks at once 2-4 at the most Im a "one man band" so to speak.I don't really have anything as far as to what gear interfacing but I'll post my future set up to give you an idea of whatI will be needing.

    Monitors/interface to be detirmined,lol
    Preamp/condencer mic
    a mixer if needed
    daw controll surface
    midi keyboard controller(usb)
    turntable(s) and dj mixer
    MPC 1000
    microkorg
    Motif ES rack
    MultiFX rack
    Mabey a voice prism
    thats all for now of course I would like an interface that leaves room for future expansion...

    hope this helps

    ps:My room isn't that big and is pretty much square.
     
  4. 187

    187 Guest

    :roll:
     
  5. 187

    187 Guest

    :cry: bump
     
  6. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    enormous open ended discussion topic and not easy to advise

    I have a microKorg ... yeah I like it and I loved the editor BUT it doesn't work in OSX.
    There is always a problem somewhere.

    Monitors ... best you can afford ... at least one set of industry standards still makes good sense
    Headphones ... best you can afford ... lean towards industry standards
    Mics ... best you can afford ... lean towards industry standards

    Mic-pre ... might depend on your demands but an industry standard and one that operationaly makes sense to you. No point having the worlds best if it just doesn't agree with you.

    DAW control surface ... don't ... just my 2 cents

    Keyboard controller ... keep it cheap but keep it comfortably under your fingers.
    Unless you want a weighted one ... only you can choose here.

    Sound modules ... sounds you like BUT the programming must make sense to you and invite you to dial in new sounds. Presets will only get you so far.

    turntable(s) and dj mixer ... like Keyboards these have to feel good under your fingers and can be quite personal.

    interface that leaves room for future expansion
    ouch
    over what time frame ?
    things change and this might not be so easy to meet.
    I think an interface that is cheap but still meets your sound qoulity needs is good and fee the cash up for the things that will last a lifetime.
    In some cases the choice of Software will chose the interface.
     
  7. 187

    187 Guest

    lol...I allready have all that picked out the question was about a interface and a opinion on monitors...and [expletive deleted] industry standards!
     
  8. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    one roll of the eyes and one bump

    I only tried to add something as it looked like you wanted anything.

    Monitors
    so very personal and so far, absolutely no indication of room size or how loud you need to monitor .or if you need to be mobile
    ... but just a budget of
    !!
    main monitoring or secondary monitoring ?

    When choice of gear gets difficult it is often cool to stick close to industry standards as they have become that way for good reasons ... but we are going to ^#$% industry standards.
    ouch
    ??
    ... the self powered portable Genelec with perhaps the sub option.
    otherwise keep it very cheap and go Event until you really find a monitor you like.

    as for interface .. keep it cheap until you find what you really like.
    You may end up with a producer pack with an SPDF out that will bypass the converters in your interface.

    sorry ,
    that's all I got
     
  9. 187

    187 Guest

    I appreciate your input but in my initial post I asked bout the Alesis Prolinear DSP 820's and a good interface to go with,This is my first studio so forgive my lack of info as to help base the opinions of others.I was actually thinking about getting a pair of secondary monitors on my way to work today...is that nesseccary?
    I was thinking of having the Alesis as my main and mabey a pair of krk's as a secondary.also Im set up in my bedroom which isn't that big but it's not a closet either.and after reading my posts I did mention my space.might I also add that im in an appartment luckly my neighbors aren't asses.Ive blasted the home stereo on many occasions Ive never had 1 complaint so it shouldn't be a problem.Of course I know whats too loud so I won't be shaking the entire building and since Im set up in bedroom that isn't that big I won't need to be at very high volumes to get "high" volumes.
    anything else im leaving I will post up if you need more info.thanks.
     
  10. rudedogg

    rudedogg Guest

    everything you say is to general. if you want to get answers here, you have to ask direct questions.

    monitors: there are several threads on monitors on r.a.p. and here, use the search functionality. if you don't find what your looking for here, go to google groups. i have mackie hr824s and i like them. a lot of people on here don't. to each is own. i tried krks and i hated them. i'd really like to have genelecs.

    interface: are you solely going to "produce" in your bedroom, or are you going to be working with professional studios as well? are you going to be recording other people or yourself? if you are going to need to interface with other people, you will want an industry standard like protools. if not, then do your homework and figure out which has the best reviews. there are a lot that will work for you.

    software: depends on the interface.

    industry standards: if you keep saying things like "[expletive deleted]", you will get very little help from people around here. there are many professionals here that do this for a living. industry standards are standards for a reason. if you want to record on sub-standard gear you will get sub-standard sound. unless you are the only one in the world that is gonna make your alesis sound like a 250k neve board. well, good luck.

    a better outlook: see how much good equipment you can buy, cause your gonna end up buying it eventually, and your just gonna waste money going from prosumer equipment, selling it, and then finally realizing that pro equipment is what makes pro sounds.

    you can believe me or not, but if you come on a board that has users who have been making music for 20+ years, and try to tell them they don't know what they are talking about, it is not likely to get you very much help.
     
  11. 187

    187 Guest

    interface: are you solely going to "produce" in your bedroom, or are you going to be working with professional studios as well? are you going to be recording other people or yourself? if you are going to need to interface with other people, you will want an industry standard like protools. if not, then do your homework and figure out which has the best reviews. there are a lot that will work for you.

    I plan on working in professional studios as well as working/recording with other artists

    industry standards are standards for a reason.

    I think that reason is cause there widely used in the industry which makes them "standards" but the "standard" doesn't mean its the best or only way...imo

    industry standards: if you keep saying things like "[expletive deleted]", you will get very little help from people around here. there are many professionals here that do this for a living. industry standards are standards for a reason. if you want to record on sub-standard gear you will get sub-standard sound. unless you are the only one in the world that is gonna make your alesis sound like a 250k neve board. well, good luck.

    a better outlook: see how much good equipment you can buy, cause your gonna end up buying it eventually, and your just gonna waste money going from prosumer equipment, selling it, and then finally realizing that pro equipment is what makes pro sounds.

    I am well aware that a pair of $1500 monitors will not sound like 250k neve board,obviously If we all had the money we would get the best of the best but most of us don't.
    But Im also of aware of getting gear based on the long run and the "bigger picture" and thats is what Im trying to do but unfortunately I don't have the money to get a pair of Genies,Dyno's, or a hd/tmd protools rig and a avalon preamp,etc.I cant get the best money can buy so I gotta get the best my money can buy.ie $1500-$1800 on main monitors,$1000-$1200 for a preamp,$1000-$1200 for a mic,$800-$1200 for a interface,etc im a regular person who has to sacrafice things to get even the things mentioned above.

    you can believe me or not, but if you come on a board that has users who have been making music for 20+ years, and try to tell them they don't know what they are talking about, it is not likely to get you very much help.

    I never did anything of the sort...when I said [expletive deleted] the industry standards I shoulda said ^#$% protools cause it's one thing I don't feel thats nesseccary to get "pro" sound/results it is the opinion of others that made it a "standard",Logic,Cubase and others provide the same quality that protools does.Unfortunatley if to be successful in this business means using what everyone else does I'll have to retort back to [expletive deleted] the industry standards!

    of course Im here looking for the help and opinions of others and not to stir up sh*t these are just my opinions...they don't call me Renegade for nothing.
     
  12. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    The "F" word is unacceptable! Use a little imagination. RO is a top site on the search engine pages. No doubt there are 10 year old kids reading this stuff. We don't want thier parents or teachers walking by the computer and seeing that kind of thing on RO do we? Thanks in advance.

    I have edited the thread.

    187. You have a pretty realistic grasp of what it should cost to get you to a point that you want to achieve. To reply directly to the question, my advice for you is;

    Mackie HR824's.

    PTle 002 system (all the inzanoutz you need and the software is there too). Perfect for moving projects between studios.

    An Avalon 737 for the mic pre channel strip. It's the sound you want, believe me

    The mic is the most difficult thing. If cost were no concern, I would suggest the AKG C 12 VR or even better, if you could find one, a vintage C12.

    C 414 B-XL II. Close the the above, same capsule type but no tube. Much less expensive.

    The street price on these may take you over the budget you have outlined but I would be willing to say you will be able to get someone to do this in an all at once package for something you can afford. Have fun and good luck! (I love buying gear!). (y)
     
  13. 187

    187 Guest

    sorry for swearing in on the boards...I think I may just have to go with my instincts on the whole gear thing,and to add to my problems i live in Canada,lol.but seriously things are much more expensive here and there are NO DEALS I have too pay the list pricing and there is no good places to test monitors and such the ones they have in store aren't the ones I wanna try so far theyve had to order everything in..so with the monitors Im getting I won't have any basis on why I choose them either than a flippin spec sheet and the ever cool apearence.I can't really find any valuable reviews on them.but what I did find on them were good things,but at the same time I get alot of people saying Alesis don't make very quality monitors but im going to be a reble and get them anyway if all else fails I will trade them in for something else.Hopefully I can find a diamond in the rough with this purchase.
    I was actually going to get the 824's but there 1999 before tax so thats way too much for my budget,and after reading on them they were not as good as people say but then again nothing really is there's allways bad things about every product mostly nitpicking,any way thanks to everyone for "putting up" with me,I know how I come across sometimes hope I didn't offend anyone that was never my intention.If anyone has something to add to this feel free.
     
  14. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    OK so forget the Avalon for the time being ... that should leave budget for the Mackies and the PT rig and maybe a 414 B-XL II. Check out http://www.proaudiocanada.com - http://www.adkproaudio.com or http://www.littledogaudio.com

    Really for doing urban and hip hop / rap the Mackies are the best for a small set up. Loads o bass - plenty of power!

    PT is the only way to move your stuff between studios ... nothing else compares. If you want to forget being able to move into just about any studio when ever you wish, then there are other options. But if you want to interface with the industry, then you can't say "forget" them ... you need to comply to thier standards, because they won't comply with yours.
     
  15. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    The rumours of E-MU dumping the current product line are bogus. True, they have announced new, additional products for the laptop to compliment the desktop PCI audio interfaces as well as new keyboard controllers.

    The E-MU 1820 is a real professional digital audio product and not your daddy's soundblaster. There is so much power and flexability built in to the product that it has a higher learning curve to take advantage of it's capability. Many to most of the people that have problems with it are don't have DAW's that are powerfull enough or properly configured and/or are down right stupid idiots that have no clue on what there doing in the first place or those that are usually trying to use the product in ways it was not designed to be used such as playing DVD movies, MP3's and games. All of which are non professional audio applications.

    The E-MU 1820M along with the EmulatorX sampling software is the most flexable and productive product right out of the box that I have ever encountered. While not perfect, and having some issues as any 3rd party product that runs under windows has, it is still a joy to use and hear everytime I use it. My primary use is as a idea and songwritting tool, it interfaces perfectly with my project studio and yet is up to par on it's own to be used without powering up the whole studio.
     
  16. kingfrog

    kingfrog Active Member

    OK 187 Here another voice from someone who has had a Home Studio on various incarnations for 30 years and who has access to the better and best stuff at friends studios.. I don't claim to be a pro by the industry standards. Just a regular Joe who records himself and others for profit part time and sells CDs.

    You do NOT need to buy the Avalon or Mackies, or any other high end gear based soley on what "experts" on this board claim are industry standards. Home studio "standards" Im sure are much different. After all you are building a HOME studio in your bedroom .

    This is what my approach has been and works for me. For ALL your gear USE YOUR ears not someone elses ideas. Eliminate those you wont pay up to first. Try a variety of gear. Take a friend if possible. sales people can tweak any gear to make it "Appear" better. A/B with a CD or source you know well . CLOSE YOUE EYES and listen. You might be surprised at your choice. This works with Mics, pre amps, monitors best. THen after you find a piece you like A/B it with an "industry standard" piece costing much more. You WiLL have a much better idea of the cost/ benefit ratio. As well you might save a lot of money and know YOU chose the gear blindly that sounded the best to YOU.

    I did this with pre amps comparing a with DBX, ART, and low end Focusrite, Joe Meek VCQ1 and i liked what VCQ1 sounded like best. Then I A/b d the Meek with the $1700 Avalon and guess what? The price benefit ratio just did not justify the added cost of the Avalon and I have been happy and more importantly not feeling, like the Meek is a temporary solution......

    I bought a pair of Alesis Monitor Ones and thought I should upgrade them so I bought a pair of the in that day "new stars."The Mackie HR 824 (eturn policies are great)and placed them in my studio side by side on an A/B switch...I was able to get the Alesis Amped Monitor Ones with the help of a sub to sound very close to the Mackies using EQ. Again the Mackies went back. But MORE importantly I found a new respect for my Monitor Ones. I am now looking for a pair of Active Monitors to replace them and move them to another room. Im interested in the Event Precisions 8s and will AB thn with the Alesis Mark II and Warfdales which I have heard good things about. Then a pair of Genelcs last

    I tried many mics including the Shure sm44, Neuman Tl103, and AT 4050 (much like the 414)and settled for the warmer soundng Rode NT2 to compliment an old Akg 414 which I personally find Brittle. The Meek Rode combination is a winnier for me and I do not feel the need to go upscale like so many say is inevitable.

    You cannot blindly act on what those who spent $10,.0000 on three pieces of gear say. Of course they are going to feel its the way you HAVE to go or predict you will go there anyway . Otherwise they look like industry standard Lemmings. rather than knowlwgable "pros" with 20 years of experience.

    Your own ears will giv you all the answers you need and YOU will be happy with your gear and may never feel the need to "upgrade" to studio standards.

    Regarding Pro Tools. Unfortunately Pro Tools for reasons that have little to do with TODAY'S product is very common but is in its format and plug ins. I don't need to tell you what propietary can cost you. Many other software platforms do convert to Pro tools format OMF. So you are not bound to them either.

    Use you ears and ALWAYS A/B with the best gear. You will either feel good about your less expensive brand or have to have the best. either way you will be satisfied for a long time.......

    The bottom line is I saved thousands and am very happy with my result which has been positivly graded by real pro engineers who have major studios and have recorded Major recognizable names. They were encouraging and even a bit surprised at the quality available to us Home "producers" Comments were akin to EQ adjustments to get a fatter low end on my orchestrata samples. Not noise or gear issues. I have learned to sqeeze the last bit out of this gear.

    Total cost? $600 for the VCQ1, $399 for the Rode...kept the Monitor Ones. All tracked throuh a Mackie board to an Aardvark L6 using seconday monitors consisting of Radio Shack minimus 7s

    He showed me how to use a high budget recording by Sting and others as referenced to the syyle of music Im doing as a referece to get the sound, space and EQ balance I want. This is priceless for those with inferior monitors this way because you can use any monitor to mix on . Recording reference monitoring is much more critical but still is possible to achieve to satisfaction.

    Good luck I hope this alternate opinion helps
     
  17. 187

    187 Guest

    Great reply It's good to know Im not doomed cause im not rich!
    But unforunatly I don't have the luxary of testing/ comparing anything blindly or otherwise Im in Canada,Winnipeg specificly and we only have two places that sell this kind of stuff Ive only been going to one tho I'll check out the other one when the time permits.but I called them yesterday to get a price check on the DSP 820's but it never came up in the computer only the 720 model so I called the one Ive been going to ever since I got myself into this and they sent a order for them and I put down a deposit today...I know it's not the smartest thing but I dont have any means of testing them first so Im just gonna pray,lol.I'll be getting my interface next...Here's my future set up.(for recording)

    Custom PC
    P4P800-E Deluxe/865PE+ICH5R chipset
    P4 3.0
    1024MB dual channel DDR 400 Ram
    Two 200 GB Hd's in a Raid 1 config (Audio)
    External Hd not sure whats a good size (OS/Programs)

    Alesis Prolinear DSP 820's (monitors)
    RME Multiface(interface)
    MIDIsport 4x4(midi interface)
    Presonus Eureka (preamp)
    Shure KSM27 (mic)

    Adobe Audition 1.5
    Cubase SX 3
    Ozone 3

    I personaly think this is a great set up...Of course upgrades will take place but this is a good start for me.
     
  18. kingfrog

    kingfrog Active Member

    Others may scoff but i think you have a good basis to begin putting your music on CD. You will learn to squeeze the most out of your gear. Do not buy anything expensive before listening to the result to see if it's worth the expense for you. Nothing is worse then spending too much for something and having your expectations dashed by a nice but relativly small difference in what you hear in the final mix under microscopic aural conditions.Lets face ot most people do not listen to a CD as critically as those who record and mix it. And at that in high background moise situations as well. So much is wasted on little tweaks that will go generally unappreciated.
     
  19. 187

    187 Guest

    Agreed
     
  20. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Yeah .... that's it. because a lot of people are deaf (obviously frog is) that's a great reason to justify doing crappy work with crappy gear. Yeah that's it! That's the ticket.

    You only get one chance to be heard sometimes. Do you want it to be as good as possible. get some good front end. No way around it. Don't give a sh*t? Then by all means cheap out. "It's all in what you value", as George Harrision once wrote.

    It would be sad to be left wondering what may have happened if you had traveled that extra mile. I say make it as good as you can. frog says don't worry, no none knows the difference. I say someone does, or else why all the high end gear? Just because frog is deaf, doesn't mean everyone is... Which sounds right to you? As good as you can, or good enough? It's your call. :roll:
     

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