In case you have been under a rock

Discussion in 'Location Recording' started by sheet, Dec 9, 2009.

  1. sheet

    sheet Well-Known Member

    The Music Group (owned by Uli Behringer) has purchased Midas and Klark from Bosch.

    Today I was talking to my EV rep. He says that the guys at Midas are actually ok with it as long as they get to continue designing top shelf stuff. There is no denying the future IMO. We will see cheaper Midas stuff manufactured in Asia. The Venice is manufactured by Dynacord in Germany. I guess that will change since Dynacord is the design and manufacturing division for EV.

    Now it is legal for Behringer to rip off the cheap Venice clone console that they have been selling.
  2. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    Thanks for making fun of my rock. It's a nice rock. Fully appointed. With a stocked bar of single malt. ^_^

    I'm sure that's what the guys over at Crest said after Hartley Peavey purchased them in 1999........
  3. sheet

    sheet Well-Known Member

    There is one minor difference. Midas and KT actually make top tier gear. Crest was making gear for a price point and they were hit and miss. Crest had a lack of direction, lots of mis-managed resources, etc.
  4. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    Touche. I never meant to equate Crest and Midas as equal in quality. Just as similar in circumstance though you are certainly accurate in your depiction of Crest at the end.
  5. stealthy

    stealthy Guest

    Geeze...I'm interested to see how this turns out...Kind of disappointing.
  6. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Like they say, "There goes the neighborhood..."
  7. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Not everything made in China has to be bad. Remember when Japanese cars were not well thought of? Studio Projects, SE Electronics, Apple Computers, ASUS all made in China. I realize there is the issue of Management as well. Time will tell. This could be a good thing too, though there is so much potential for it to go downhill.
  8. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Hueseph, have you ever MIXED on a Beh%$^r board? LOL!!! THAT sir is the issue, not the country of origin.
  9. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Oh. I know. Just trying to find light in an abandoned coal mine.
  10. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Abandon all hope ye who should enter there.......

    Imagine a Midas with the cheapest components know to mankind...."Ah hell, we test every 3 billionth one....." "It SAYS its a hunnerd volts right on the label...." "Never seen wax melt into that color before...."

    and this...

    "WHAT A GREAT SHOW!!! Too bad the sound went out after the third song....It was REALLY gonna ROCK!"

    "Hey man, were the mains even on? I wasnt getting any wash off the wall like usual...."
  11. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    china does not always = cheap.
    Unlike north america china actually has a growing electronics market, therefore they are investing in better assembly equipment, which will produce parts with tighter tolerances'.
  12. cfaalm

    cfaalm Active Member

    Or is it that Uli is tired of being called the cheap one and he decides to get his teeth into a bit of quality here. One can only hope Klark and Midas can maintain their level of quality.

    I have a couple of B--r products that are fine for the purpose, just not top notch. A teacher at SAE always said, B--r is OK as long as it isn't in your signal chain.

    That would leave the cable tester and FCB1010 floorboard with the goodies. I also have a UB802 for personal monitoring and a MX882 for distributing monitor signal on stage. They have worked fine so far.
  13. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    I think the real issue is that Midas and KT just fit too small of a niche market for the previous owners... e.g. not enough market to make em' profitable for the corp mooks to keep em' around... which then put them on the auction block.

    Uli seized the opportunity to "improve" his product lines. He needs the digital technology that both Midas and KT bring to the table.

    It's an overall lose:lose:lose situation, IMHO.

    The Midas and KT folks are reasonably safe for a year or three. After that, I'm thinkin' we're gonna see the Midas and KT brands take a serious hit. All the high quality engineering will be slashed thin, and the manufacturing will be thrown to China.

    Midas and KT will go to mass manufacturing on the high-end stuff... but some of their better features will be cheapened and show up in the crap line Behringer stuff.

    I don't see Midas and KT being able to survive intact much beyond 5 years.

    Given Uli's lack of ethics, I'd say that if you're gonna buy Midas... get their analog gear now!! It's great gear, and there will be parts available for quite awhile.

    However, I seriously suspect that their digital line is going to be the first to suffer big time.

    Either that, or I'm completely backwards, and Uli's gonna start making XL's again from the junk facilities he's exploiting in China.

    Oh, and there's comments about "remember when Japanese cars were first introduced?" and "china does not alway = cheap. "... It took the Japanese auto manufacturers almost 20 years to make a car that was even half way comparable to what US and EU manufacturers had already been making.

    The standards to which China holds their exports for the US market is fair to criminal, at best... lead based paint and dye's, molding drywall, crappy iron and steel, poor craftsmanship, and lousy working conditions... it's gonna take a long time for them to understand that quality is more profitable than quantity... Which is why I suspect that Wally World is so successful there... yeeesh.

    For China (in general) to achieve what the Japanese have accomplished is something I'm guessing may take at least one of two full generations to achieve.

    When you think of high quality engineering and manufacturing standards, China is not typically in the top 50 countries that come to mind.

    That alone will cause Midas and KT profound issues... if it wasn't the truth, then how come the vast majority of the talk in the pro audio market is negative regarding the Midas and KT brand futures?

    There was never a comment of "post Bosch" or "pre Bosch" with either KT or Midas... but I am already hearing the term "pre-Uli" and "Post Behringer"...

    I seriously hope that Midas and KT can survive the sale... but I kinda' doubt it will be a successful battle to salvage the brands in the long run.
  14. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    This Sino Japanese comparison is hard to make for another major reason. Culturally they are VERY different. Nearly as different as the Midas view verses the Behringer view. While throughout history there have been ideas and creation of quality within the culture, the greater trend is always a move to absorb and subsume those ideas into a (lowest) common denominator. There are a very few companies attempting to make quality products for export markets-a few piano companies come to mind. All of them have quality control managed by foreign nationals. Taiwan fares a bit better perhaps because of the dependence of foreign governments and hence their cultural influences.

    This isn't to say there is nothing good in China. I've studied many fine and wonderful aspects of the culture for years but those things were not related to manufacturing or even the masses for the most part.
  15. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    MadMax with all do respect the electronics industry is not the automotive industry.

    Yes there are quality control issues, my point however is the investment in the development of the electronics manufacturing industry is currently the largest in china.

    When China has enough incentive to, It will not take long for them to catch up to our standards of quality control.
  16. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    "electronics industry is not the automotive industry. "

    My current F-150 wouldn't start the other day. I thought it needed a jump...I was wrong.

    It had to be rebooted :)
  17. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member


    With all due respect, major industrial infrastructure takes a long time in integrate and execute.

    With the weak world wide economy, ANY country could be the leader in any kind of manufacturing investment, and will still be behind, and not excelling at improving their infrastructure, as the total value of the investment is still less than that of competing economies that had made that same investment in better economic times. That's simple economics.

    If you are still learning the processes involved in creating a consistent standard of quality product, you're still behind.

    The ethical standards of quantities over quality is one which is typically destined for failure. Especially, when quantities are to be made at the cost of ever increasing demands for greater profit margins.

    When manufacturing is left alone by governments, most of the time, the competition of marketplace applies internal pressures which inherently force improvement in processes which force adapting of a quality over quantity philosophy.

    However, when governments are integral to the industrial development of a nation, (where industries rely upon government to exist) it is typical for the ineffectiveness, inefficiencies, and political nature of that government to override the typical self regulation that is seen in free market countries where the government relies upon industries.

    I agree that once China, or any nation for that matter, has enough incentive, it probably won't take long to catch up to typical industry standards. However, that pressure has to be felt by those individuals who are capable of implementing the change in core philosophy. In China, that at least appears, (to be) something who's time will take at least a generation or two to loosen to grasp of government on the control of business.

    Big business and large manufacturing companies outside of China are making inroads into China's developing markets. While this appears to be a good thing, in the short to medium time frames, in the long run I question how this can be good for some industries.

    Big business is not just about their product or service. Many a corporation has their primary goal of providing investors with ROI, and therefore have lost their perspective that their product is priority one. The leaders of the companies are not looking at China, and other developing countries, as much more than a place to get cheap labor and make products that are "good enough" to sell to the masses.
  18. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    Well, now Uli owns a lot of patents that he doesn't have to steal. My guess is that he doesn't plan to degrade quality. Why do that when he can market the dirt cheap knockoffs under the Behreinger label as "Midas designs." But then CBS didn't plan to run Fender into the ground. We'll see. Uli's corporate culture doesn't inspire confidence.
  19. sheet

    sheet Well-Known Member

    Owning patents is one thing, making great products that stand the test of time is another. The best products they made were the very first exact replicas of dbx and Aphex units. After those settlements and mandated design and component changes, it was all downhill from there.

    Loud didn't plan to kill off some of it's companies. Harman didn't plan to kill off some of it's companies. This is the second or third ownership change for Midas. Midas was allowed to be who they were, retaining most of the people that made Midas Midas. There is only one core designer left out of the three as far as I know. He is happy as long as he gets to continue to design top tier products. The question is, why was Midas not doing well? It was not their product quality. Analog consoles are all but a thing of the past on the high end. Midas' approach to the digital console is a bit weird and hyper expensive. Once the people who can afford it have purchased one, what is there left to do? In this economy, the answer is watch people buy Yamahas, Digidesign/Avids and Digicos. They will have to find cheaper manufacturing outside of Germany, etc and go Asian. This is what Uli intends to do I bet. Take the best, make it affordable, kick the other guys off, and (read this with a demonic voice) RULE THE WOOOOOORRRRRLLLLLDDDD! AAAAAAAHHHHHH HHHHHAAAAAA HHHHHHAAAAAA HHHHHAAAAA!!!!
  20. cfaalm

    cfaalm Active Member

    For those tuning in just now: Here's a link to an article about it. Perhaps you've all read it.

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