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Is .wav form worse than music in cubase's projects?

Discussion in 'Cubase' started by Har, Feb 24, 2012.

  1. Har

    Har Active Member

    Hello.


    I've got a problem. That's how it works; I recorded vocals in CoolEdit Pro 2.1 (Since I like this program more for vocal recording) and I've got music sessions in Cubase5 (I was recording to wav forms). Now it's time for mixing it together, and then mastering. So the problem is that, I have NO IDEA why, but when I copy vocals into Cubase's project, their sound is much lower, so I'll have to do the whole mixing volume job again. So I've been thinking will I loose ANY of quality, if I'll just mixdown vocals into wavs which I've been recording to? Beceause if it's the same, I'll definitely do the job in cooledit, but if I'll loose some quality I'll have to try doing volume job again in cubase.


    Actually once I did test it, and for my ear there wasn't difference, but it's always better to ask.
     
  2. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    For any recording or mixing purposes, you should absolutely be utilizing all ".wav " format. Unless you are Macintosh-based which would then mean you are recording in AIFF. Which is just Apple's format for .wav. These are uncompressed recording formats. MP3, MP 2, MP 4, WMA, QuickTime are all highly data compressed formats and are only really useful for your iPod, Internet stuff.

    Recording in Cool Edit Pro and/or even mixing with it should be just fine. If you are working in Cubase5, why not just utilize that? If all of your MIDI stuff is being done with that so should your live microphone recordings. No reason to pop back to Cool Edit Pro just for recording purposes because recording in Cubase5 , is no different. You just instruct the software what format you want to record in such as .wav, 24-bit, 44.1 kHz sampling and whether you want it to be a stereo track or a mono track from a single microphone. Cool Edit Pro is no difference there and there is no advantage in recording in Cool Edit Pro over Cubase5 . Though when it comes to mixing and the built in resident processing within the software, I too like Cool Edit Pro a.k.a. now Adobe Audition and your version is virtually identical to version 1.5 of the Adobe version. I started with Cool Edit back in early 1996 and it's still my favorite audio program now in its new Adobe iteration. Since I don't bother with MIDI stuff, I can get away with it. If I needed to do maybe stuff I would most definitely be utilizing Cubase5 its newer or even older versions. And I would have no reason to go back to Adobe Audition/Cool Edit Pro. Bottom line is there should be no quality loss at all jumping between jumping between both of those programs. If you are experiencing a quality loss, it's most definitely only operator error. It sure as heck ain't either software that's the problem.

    Tweak it up
    Mx. Remy Ann David
     
  3. Har

    Har Active Member

    So let's make it clear, since it's very important for me; I won't loose any music quality, if I'll just mixdown to .wav in cubase, and then copy this wav into cooledit, where vocals are recorded, yes? :)
     
  4. Massive Mastering

    Massive Mastering Well-Known Member

    That's an absolutely horrible idea, but you won't lose any quality...

    I think the much more important thing would be to find out what's going on.
     
  5. Har

    Har Active Member

    Could you tell me please why it's such a bad idea, since I don't loose any quality?


    To be honest with you I think there's no explanation. I did some tests;

    1. I checked volume of .wav and volume of music in project - totally the same

    2. I checked the vocal file in cooledit, and it fits totally fine.


    So, the only explanation is that when I put file into cubase it somehow changes the volume down, so I would have to search again for perfect match for every song.

    Again; tell me why it's such a bad idea? Since mastering phase is also on whole .wav file.




    I know it's maybe strange to understand, but I'm not total novice, and if it would be an easy problem to solve I'd definitely know what to do. And to tell you why am I in such position; I was recording music with my band in studio, where Cubase5 was being used. And vocals at home, where I totally prefer cooledit. So now I've got projects with music in cubase, and with vocals (which I said before were recorded into .wav forms exported from cubase) in cooledit.



    Few more opinions would be nice. I really love this forum, you people are amazing, always gettin' an answer when it's needed. Keep up the good work! I hope one day I'll be able to help people just like you are. :)
     
  6. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    We are just confused as to why your .wav vocal microphone recordings don't sound good in CUBASE? All the controls necessary for proper recording level should play back the same way they went in. Though we all have our personal way of working in our projects. So if you like recording vocals in Cool Edit Pro, no problem. I don't use CUBASE 5 but I have used CUBASE 3 & 4 and have achieved the same quality of recording levels that are the same as levels in Cool Edit/Audition. If you're not getting that, it's simple operational error and so there is no reason not to record your vocals in CUBASE. But whatever works for you is whatever works for you and your style. It's all that bouncing back and forth that's really unnecessary. So by your description, you probably don't have a full understanding or handle on CUBASE 5? You are simply missing something in your settings.

    I'm sure in time, you will be helping lots of people also
    Mx. Remy Ann David
     
  7. Massive Mastering

    Massive Mastering Well-Known Member

    *My* "bad idea" thing was creating a submix in one program - not in the context of the mix - and then working on it in another program. Or even in the same program for that matter.

    But in any case, let's figure out what the problem is.
     
  8. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

    What is your process for getting the track from one program to the other?

    Do you know about pan law?
     
  9. Kapt.Krunch

    Kapt.Krunch Well-Known Member

    I'd suspect it has something to do with level settings between the two programs. Although the .WAV is exactly the same level (it's an identical file), maybe the channel volume, main bus or some other setting is lowering the perceived level in Cubase? It could even be a setting in the interface, or the program setting to the interface, that is addressing the two programs a bit differently.

    It's unlikely you'll get two different programs to run an identical .WAV file at "precisely" the same volume, considering all the variables, but it shouldn't be far off, if you consider all the variables, and adjust accordingly.

    So, this may "likely" be what Remy suggested...a bit of "operator error", in that you may not be taking into account the entire path of the signal in both programs. Also, the "fader" and meter calibration and response may be slightly different in both programs, in that the rate of change from a volume tweak MAY be a bit different, and the perception of the meters may also be a tad different, depending on if you have any possible settings in either program set up to respond differently.

    Also remember that when you've recorded a track at a certain level, and it plays back at that level in the software it was using, if it was, say, 80% fader up, and you left it there, and it sounds fine...then the track is 100% done. If you then dump it into Cubase, and think you have to set the track's fader to the same 80% to match what it was in Cool Edit, all you are doing is lowering the 100% track down by whatever dB a 20% fader reduction will do to it...so it WILL actually be lower. In other words, just because you had a level setting at a certain point in Cool Edit, it doesn't mean you need to match that setting in Cubase. You should just be able to set it to 100%, since you know it's not got any "overs", already, and then back it off a bit, if you need/want. You aren't doing that, are you? BTW, when I mentioned "100%", that doesn't mean to "boost" the Cubase faders to provide gain...I think I meant 100% of the signal as referenced to "0"...I think.

    I THINK...I got this right, but as always (in my early-morning haze and without my audio computer turned on to check stuff) I may have gotten something wrong, so feel free to correct me. I do think I may be on the right track in some way, though.

    Cheers,

    Kapt.Krunch
     

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