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kick drum sound

Discussion in 'Drums' started by iivanov, Jan 7, 2008.

  1. iivanov

    iivanov Guest

    so I got a d112 but it seems that there is a world of trial and error in front of me so I just want to ask to make sure that THIS is the kick drum mic for me.


    I know it's kind of silly to go after kick sounds from music I listen to but I just really want it. What I want is a sound that sounds like joy division's kick especially amazing in the peel sessions. I also love the kick sound from beatles' abbey road.

    GENERALLY, is this a good mic for the particular sound I am looking for? I just want to make sure so I won't regret it later.
     
  2. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    You might try the "Search" section, using D112 as the prompt. There have been too many posts and threads on kick mics, and that one in particular. It seems that there are those who either love it or hate it.
    There are certainly better (and more useful/flexible) mics around for that...
     
  3. mobilelab

    mobilelab Active Member

    " but it seems that there is a world of trial and error in front of me" - your words, and a perfect description of every recording session. If you put the time in with that or any decent mic you can achieve the sound you want. Take the resonant head off, leave it on. Put a pillow or blanket in the drum or don't. Mic the batter head, or not.
     
  4. Gertok

    Gertok Guest

    +1 mobilelab!

    It took us... hmm... over 2 weeks (about 1 hour per band practice) to find good kick drum sound... and actually we had to move drums to another room (ceilings were roughly 17 feet tall... big & tall room).

    2 iivanov:
    ruskiy?
     
  5. iivanov

    iivanov Guest

    no but that is not what I mean. I want to know if there is a big discrepancy between d112 and any other kick mic in its price range (beta 52, audix d6, etc) and if this mic is good for the sound I am after.
     
  6. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Let me try and capsulate what everybody else has been trying to say.

    Kik drum sound is NOT based solely on the mic. While the mic WILL play a part of the overall sound, it is NOT the final piece of the puzzle.

    A direct answer to your question and comparing this basic sound of the D112 to say, Ringo's kick drum on Abbey Road is , NO, this mic does not of itself, sound like that.

    Can you MAKE it sound like that? I'm not sure you could make a kick drum sound like that even if you had the exact same gear and kick drum they used at the time.

    The kick drum mics used on the AbbeyRoad sessions were an AKG D20 and a Sony C38A. There was no resonant head on the kick in this case. It was a Ludwig 22" Maple Shell clear laquer drum AND (and this is really a big AND, ) it had Richard Starkey whackin on it.

    My advice to you, especially if you're looking for a very particular sound, is to buy three different weights and thicknesses of kick drum heads, three different pedal beaters of different materials, set the kick drum up in the room its going to be recorded in...move it around while recording different parts of the songs you're going to be recording....find the sweetspot in the room that gives the best sound you can get and start from there.
     
  7. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

  8. BrianaW

    BrianaW Active Member

    Joy Division / Beatles Kick

    Hi.
    I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I'm after the exact same thing. Other examples would be The Cure's "Three Imaginary Boys", Ben Kweller records, or even a few Strokes songs. It's like a deadened vintage sound that's got a touch more sub, and is also more clear and articulate. All I know is that you will definitely not get that sound with the D6. That's what I'm using now and it's a major pain to get it to sound like anything other than your standard metal/powerpop kick. I have not used the D112, but I have used a Beta 52 and it seems to be able to get the results we want, so it's next on my list. You might also be able to get it with a 57 or a 58. I think the key to both of those sounds (drummers) is removing the resonant head and using a lot of muffling (a big pillow?). A Remo Black Dot on the batter side will also give it that lower frequency slap, but with more subtlety, punch, and control than a regular single ply. I've used black dots on 24" kicks, and you could set any recording device in front of them and it sounds amazing. I also think both of those drummers tuned thier kicks low, but a little higher than todays norm. A felt beater would be the best choice as well. Hope this helps. Let me know if and how you get it!! :D
     
  9. THeBLueROom

    THeBLueROom Guest

    +1 on Davedog's post. The kick and the tuning technique is everything.

    if you can, try out all three you referred to, they are all different beasts and will achieve different sounds.

    d112 - picky IMHO
    beta52 - less picky and more meat
    D6 - way less picky with a more scooped mid sound. Highly popular rock and metal mic.
     
  10. dhassay

    dhassay Guest

    i vote for the D6 from audix. i was always using extreme eq to get the bass drum to have a huge attact/click and to also get the tight low thud that i wanted. i put the D6 about half way in the bass drum, facing about two inches to the left of where the beater hits. i little bit of eq, little bit of companding instead of gating, and then some compression and i'm happy. if i need more low end i pull up the waves rbass and add a little more at 50 or 6- herts. then i'm done
     
  11. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    This thread had become another thing other than what the original poster had started with. I have made two threads out of this and invite all who are interested to continue to post here about kick drum sounds and also on the new topic of production values throughout time.... Thanx....dadogg
     
  12. Rimshot

    Rimshot Guest

    I use an AKG D112 and it works great, never had a problem and always get a killer kick drum sound. Of course I'm using a Yamaha Recording Custom kit with Powerstroke 3 on the BD heads... with a 7" hole at about the 4 oclock position (makes it easier to get the mic in with my stand).

    You have to position the d112 inside the drum about halfway with the mic off center from the beater but pointing at it on an angle. Course there are other ways but it works for me.. also - make sure the vent end is pointing away from the source. I had one sound guy set it up backwards - and it still sounded good. Also I only use light muffling - a couple of 6' shammy sheets. but it depends what sound you're after.

    Anyway, it's all about tuning/tweaking, muffling the drum to get the sound you are after. The mic you have will defintely do the job. I've used Shure Beta 52's and they are great as well.

    I can't remember what the Cure or Joy Division BD's were like. I seem to recall JD BD was very big and open so listen to the track or sound and adjust your kick.. see if you can find a youtube video of the guys kit; it might give you some ideas. ..oh yeah Ringo - he used Calf skin heads!
     
  13. Rimshot

    Rimshot Guest

    Okay my interest was piqued - there are lots of Youtube videos of Joy Division and on his live set he is using toms without the bottom heads on (or maybe concert toms). I couldn't see the heads, but it 'sounds' like those old black dot heads... on the Kick it looks like he cut a huge hole out of the resonant side leaving about 3" around the rim. I couldn't see what muffling but judging by the sound its stuffed with a medium heavy pillow or blanket.

    So the effect he gets is a solid 'thoom' out of the toms and 'thud' out of the kick. Not my cup of tea, but I was never a fan (probably cause my roomate at the time played them incessantly and they were such a 'downer' sounding band!)
     
  14. BrianaW

    BrianaW Active Member

    Here's a clip from 24 Hour Party People that reinacts Martin Hannett recording Joy Division. It's said to be quite accurate, other than Ian Curtis saying he hates Bowie. If you look closely, you can see that he's using all pinstripes (no resonants) and the front head of the kick is almost completely cut out. It also looks like a 24" kick (although it's hard to tell with the aspect ratio being incorrect).



    Hannett is one of my favorite producers. I also read an interview with the drummer from Psychedelic Furs which stated that Hannett was very big on seperation with his drum sounds. There were a lot of times where he'd actually force the drummer to track one drum at a time.

    I know Ringo played without resonant heads on any drums for a period of time. I assumed it was from the White Album to Let It Be, but I just say that because it sounds like it to me.
     
  15. Rimshot

    Rimshot Guest

    Ha - that's hilarious! Is it for real? Hannet sounds like a fun guy to work with - NOT. Tracking one drum at a time?? PAINFUL! Guess he's not into groove!

    Those are concert toms but I can't make out the brand.

    Good link!
     

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