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kick mic on snare

Discussion in 'Drums' started by Josh Conley, Jul 21, 2014.

  1. Josh Conley

    Josh Conley Active Member

    im thinking to myself how much i hate the snare sound on most recordings. too bright, too snappy, sounds like a tin can.. etc.

    so pensados fb page asked about snare mics and one or two people like using kick/bass mics. im gonna try it regardless but im wondering:

    what are your thoughts?
    ever done it? over or under?
    what were the results?
  2. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    Ya, that's what you get with SM-57's. But have you ever tried a Sennheiser MD-421? That's actually my favorite on all drums. Snare drum top, bass drum, tom-toms. Big fat and punchy. Yum. So I can understand using a bass drum microphone on the snare drum. Yup. Like a D-6, D-112, why not? Go for it!

    What could be bad?
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  3. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Secret weapon for snare. Two of them actually.......Audio Technica ATM25 or a Peavey (yeppers) PVM-520. Both kick mics by tradition.
  4. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    who the fu*k is "Joe L. from Jacksonville, FL"?

    not necessarely a "kick mic" per se .... but i like a Beyer m 201 on snare.
  5. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Exactly rotf

    Yet we have endless testimonials about all this crap
  6. audiokid

    audiokid Staff


    I love you man :ROFLMAO:
  7. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    Hey guys !! It all starts with the tunning and choice of skins and of course the choice of snare... now, take that sm57, put it through a tube preamp and make it ovedrive a bit. Then give an EQ a chance with a low pass and hi pass filter. Also, turn those overhead away a bit if the harshness comes from there.;)

    If all that fails, use a darker mic and/or pre. A ribbon mic may be ?
  8. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    Oh and carefull, some kick mic are quite bright !
  9. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    +2.7 on the Beyer M201 on snare. Its my go-to. Audix D1 or SM57 under. Phase and love em.......BUT for that huge THUD on a big deep snare....ATM25 or the Peavey
  10. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    I remember back in the day when I loved deep sounding snare drums.So a good fat wooden shell and good old-fashioned Remo Ambassador Heads, was the ticket. And then maybe even some duct tape or the drummer's wallet taped down to the top skin of the snare drum got ya what ya wanted. And then the gate after the compressor LOL. But then everybody started going for those steel shelled piccolo snare drums. WTF? They're loud they are over snappy. Some have actually no musical tonality, it's just a crack. I don't care how ya like your snare drums because it's not the microphone as much as it is, the snare drum itself. So you're really making more of a call about the snare drum as opposed to the actual microphones being used.

    I think this is largely due to most Drummers, going deaf? How can you not? I mean like what Musicians wants to wear ear plugs? Because it's actually their midrange, in their hearing, that goes first. Then they miss the attack sound on their snare drum. So they go for the brighter piccolo snare drums. Not that they don't sound cool. Just not all the time. Which is largely what I keep hearing today. IPods don't help that any. So everyone's going deaf... except me. And I'm almost 59. I didn't play in rock bands. I didn't go to rock 'n roll shows. I didn't do PA. (Except on special occasions when begged LOL) And then everybody wonders why my PA mixing, always sounds like hit records? DUH? I wonder why?

    And you get the fattest sounding snare drums, when you stick a microphone underneath the snare drum and flip the phase, to the top snare drum microphone. But not necessarily with a piccolo snare drum. So... tell the drummer what you want them to use for the recording session. And have a good snare drum handy of your own. Just like you'd have good microphones, good console, good processing. You also need the good snare drum LOL. And then no problems with any microphone. And use Sennheiser 421's. On all the drums. Because those are deep sounding microphones to begin with. Designed to record a handgun blast. And you'll get what you want. Guaranteed.

    Or your money back. Act now... within the next 20 minutes... because we can't be doing this all day. And this is not a Sham. Wow!
    Mx. Remy Ann David
    bigtree likes this.
  11. Josh Conley

    Josh Conley Active Member

    you posted the phase flipped underneath technique once before, and im certainly going to try it.
    wanted to ask about the phase flip. from a physical perspective, the sound wave is an exploding bubble emanating from the stick head at time of impact.
    both mics are pointed at this spot, and are approx the same distance away from it.
    the only difference is the sound bubble must travel through the snare skin to hit the bottom mic.
    is the time it takes to pass through this membrane equal to half a period?
  12. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    It's the initial direction of the drum skin that determines the phase of the acoustic wave (rarefaction above = upper mic, compression below = underside mic). To get the signals from the two mics to add at the mix rather than subtract, you invert the output from one of them. Since other kit mics (OH etc) will all be receiving the rarefaction first, it's conventional to flip the phase of the under-snare mic. The same argument goes for kick mics placed on the drummer side.
    bigtree likes this.
  13. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Bos, you say things so well. You are invaluable, indispensable, crucial, critical, key, vital, necessary, irreplaceable,
  14. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    "I mean like what Musicians wants to wear ear plugs?"

    The smart ones.
    pcrecord likes this.
  15. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    ROLF Most assuredly. But if ya didn't turn it up too loud onstage? Ya wouldn't have to. So glad I never had to do that. The only thing I like in my ear canals are Q-tips. Right up to the drum skin. Lightly flexing my eardrum to hear the little bones crunching. LOL not really. No woman likes to go that deep.

    In an emergency, you can use tampons. An SPL emergency. Just to be clear about that.

    At nearly 59 I am already Post Metal Pause.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  16. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    An acoustic drum will naturally produce enough db to require ear protection. And, guitar player often push their volume up a few time during shows.. so .. Make a choice, protect yourself or eventually suffer.. ;)
  17. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    T.M.I. Remy ...... please, we don't want to hear about it.
  18. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

    A couple of caveats: The part of the snare's head closest to the mic may be substantially out of phase with the part struck by the stick, but both parts contribute something to the sound at the mic. On top of that, what the bottom mic picks up may have less direct relationship to the top head's movement than with the wires. Given the different distances from the top head to each mic and the way the heads resonate there are going to be complex phase interactions as well as polarity issues. There's really no getting around the need to experiment, listen and decide on a case-by-case basis rather than automatically invert polarity on one mic.
  19. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    That's an interesting point. Althought the stick is irrelevant to us as it's not gonna a be on a track, only the mics are.
    But, It's true that not all bottom snare mic will have the same time relationship with the top mic depending on the distance between them and size of the snare itself. Also the tightness of the heads can make a slight difference. Recording with a computer has the advantage of offering to posibility to zoom in the wave and see the time difference. If the phase flipping doesn't sound tight enough for me I usually move the track of the bottom mic to fit the timing of the top one. Or you can move it further away if the music style calls for it. ;)
  20. paulears

    paulears Well-Known Member

    I've just been doing some stocktaking on the mic stock I sell, and I have found an old batch of mics I bought from China - all snare mics, and every one is mis-labeled "kick drum microphone". I remember selling the big kick drum mics, with their "snare microphone" label.

    So does this count as kick mic on snare?

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