1. Register NOW and become part of this fantastic knowledge base forum! This message will go away once you have registered.

Layla20/24 + WDM + ASIO App ( Nuendo/SX )

Discussion in 'Nuendo' started by pgstudio, Dec 17, 2002.

  1. pgstudio

    pgstudio Guest

    Hi Guys...

    My BIGGG problem is that:

    I do Big projects, like 40/50 tracks.. so i can´t use low latencies, my buffer size is set up to 4096 and it´s fine for me.. since i don´t need any "real time" FX.. i don´t use VSTis ( just record audio ) and don´t need realtime effects 'cos i have my Yamaha 03D to do my GHOST reverbs/chorus/delays etc...

    The problem comes now:
    When i select Direct Monitoring in Nuendo/SX and click on Monitor button to see the VUs, i Hear 2 sounds. One is comming in realtime ( Direct Monitoring) and the other sound with my ASIO latency ( 4096 in that case ). Man... it´s getting me crazy. Every time i hit a guitar note i hear this "second" sound... if i reduce the latency it will work.. but it´s impossible to get lower latencies with 90% of CPU used and 50tracks...
    the OLDD VXD driver never had this problem it works prety well (i´m using it right now ) but i have another problem with it: When i enter an ASIO app ( Nuendo/SX ) and then close it and open a non ASIO APP ( Sound Forge, media Player, WinAmp ) and play some of them Crash ( Win Amp, Media Player ) and sound forge make a Click when it stops playng and if i preview the Plugin it will crash ...
    I allways have to reboot the machine to open a Non-ASIO app... that´s why i´m trying to use the new WDM drivers..

    Anyone can help me ???? or At least have Layla + ASIO APP ??

    My Setup:

    ASUS P2B-D Dual PIII 650
    Layla20

    and Tyan Tiger MP Dual Athlon MP 1200Mhz and Layla20

    both machines had the same problem

    Cheers..
    PG
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Dude,
    You need to beef up your computer! 90% CPU useage is a baaaad thing! You should only be using 60% max for high quality audio, anything more than that and the audio starts sounding ragged. My 2 cents .... Fats
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It's my opinion, I'll play with it if I want to!
     
  3. pgstudio

    pgstudio Guest

    what do u mean ???

    It´s sounding very well, at least to my ears...

    CPU is there to use... not to make it idle..

    why a CPU at 90% will make a "bad" sound ??

    Cheers..
    PG
     
  4. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    OPUS??? A LITTLE HELP HERE ???
    I'll let Opus explain this to you, he is much more versed in this than I. I just know that it's true. You don't hear the difference in the quality of the sound as the CPU usage is increased past 60 %? Hmmm. Please explain this Don Opus.... Fats

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It's my opinion, I'll play with it if I want to!
     
  5. pgstudio

    pgstudio Guest

    mann...
    i never heared the difference....
    maybe i never payed attention...
    But i did a little test...
    i have a small project 16tracks with around 40% of CPU load and i put a lot of Waves REN Reverb on the SENDS with MIX set to 0 ( Dry Signal ) and the CPU goes to around 90% and i didn´t notice any problem with the sound quality..
    maybe i´m too stupid... but i didn´t noticed..

    Cheers..
    PG
     
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Now don't start calling yourself names. Just wait and watch the thread here. Opus will see it sooner or later and explain this to both of us. Or maybe someone else like Bill Roberts or SOS can chime in and help with this. I don't know the tech side of this question. I just know I have read and heard this for a long time. I have also heard this effect on some systems.. I'm guessing here but I think it may be that the CPU requires headroom to reproduce audio accurately. If it gets overloaded it may be that it starts dropping chunks of data. …. Anyone know what I talking about here? Fats

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It's my opinion, I'll play with it if I want to!
     
  7. pgstudio

    pgstudio Guest

    eheeh.. Ok

    let´s see the technical answer here.. :)
    and thx for replying here. :)

    Cheers..
    PG
     
  8. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    pg studio,
    Leave this post up so the others can see it!
    Fats
     
  9. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Hey guys....been a little busy so I haven't been around. Ok, what you are hearing is not anything due to processor underun or anything of that nature...it's as simple as disabling the onboard direct monitoring within Layla...since you are using Nuendo's direct monitoring and the Layla's direct monitoring you are hearing the delay that it takes to hear the output from Nuendo vs the Layla. The reason for the long delay is the buffer size you are using. You need that buffer size though for buffering the information from large track counts and plugins.
    When you use a lot of Waves plugs your CPU will be eaten up..plain and simple. Try doing the offline processing within Nuendo. That's one of the greatest features of Nuendo and it's rarely used. 90% CPU isn't too bad but it doesn't give you much more headroom for master effects and so forth. As long as it doesn't crap your system out you are totally fine.
    If you are done recording and now in the mixdown stage use only the Nuendo's monitoring so you can hear the fx and so forth that you are using. Otherwise turn off the direct monitoring in the Layla console by muting them.
    HTH
    Opus
     
  10. pgstudio

    pgstudio Guest

    Yo OPUS.. thx for the reply man...

    The layla Console Monitoring is in someway linked to Nuendo Monitoring.. when i mute it, it get unmuted sometimes when i Click on the Monitoring button on nuendo....
    any help ??

    Thx a lot

    Cheers..
    PG
     
  11. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Well, from what I remember when I had my layla there are two different mutes to disable. One is the actual channels and one is the outputs on the right. I can't quite remember. It's something along those lines. Play around with them and you'll get it!
    Cheers
    Opus
     
  12. pgstudio

    pgstudio Guest

    Thx a lot mann... i´ll play with them Now and tell ya the results...
    thx..

    Cheers..
    PG
     
  13. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    OPUS,
    Glad you were able to help PG with that problem. Thanks. But I still am wondering about the CPU percentage thing? I was under the impression that in order to run a DAW smoothly, avoiding crashes and producing the best audio output that it is important to keep CPU headroom at 40% minimum. I don't recall where I heard this, most likely I read it in a magazine. Is this wrong? Please explaine? Thanks, ...... Fats :confused:
     
  14. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Well, sure. Keeping your CPU usage down to the bare minimum is essential indeed but if the system is optimized and has plenty of RAM you "should" be all set.
    It is good practice to try and either bounce some tracks to lower the CPU usage or as I said earlier to make practice of the Offline Processing. It's a great feature that's rarely used.
    Cheers
    Opus
     
  15. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Opus,
    My philosophy and approach has been to have a lot of RAM (1gig) and dual high speed processors (AMD 1800+) with the goal being to keep the CPU usage to a minimum. My DAW's CPU usage is down around 10% for 16 tracks with comps verbs eq's and master processing at 24 /44.1. I am still wondering what the bad effects of high CPU use are and why it happens? I have been refraining from going with a higher sample rate (96K) to keep these loads in the DAW to a minimum. If this is not so much of an issue it would open the door to using higher rates in production. What is your take on this? ……. Fats
     
  16. pgstudio

    pgstudio Guest

    Yo Opuss...
    thx for your Help...
    i have an other workaround that worked well for me but with a little problem, i can´t see the VU meter to monitor the input at nuendo but only on my layla mixer... wich doesn´t sux too much..
    Well.. i turned of direct monitoring and then changed the Monitoring Type in nuendo to MANUAL... that way i never click to monitor in nuendo ( and never hear the ASIO delay ) and i can work that way.. but it´s muuuchhh better to se the Nuendo VUs Moving..
    Any idea for that ??? ( When i turn on direct monitor it makes 2 signals, one with delay and another without the delay ) ...

    Thx man

    Cheers..
    PG
     
  17. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Fats
    High CPU usage can lead to an unstable system if it's an old CPU that doesn't have much overhead to give your system when using up to 90%. The great thing about the newer CPU's is that it gives you a little more than what you actually see on the meter. There's a lot of factors here though. Basically hitting that high of a CPU usage can lead to a system that starts to bog down a little bit. Slow refresh rates...plug ins that take too long to come up or edit. etc etc etc.
    Of course the main goal is to get a system that will prevent this but not everyone can go out and get that technology today so they have to work with what they got in the long run.
    Dual PIII's are nice but it depends on the motherboard, OD and Application to be able to handle it efficiently.
    The latency you are hearing is due to the fact that you have the buffer sizes so damn high! The lower the buffer size the quicker the sound is going to come out.
    Opus
     

Share This Page